Shame... Giving up on Fly Sparging

OK so I started out with Batch sparging when I went to AG. For so long I had this feeling like I wasnt good enough to do Fly sparging. So eventually when I had enough money and the appropriate equipment I started Fly-Sparging...

Man I felt like such a pro doing that. But after a while I started to realize that...

1. It takes so much longer
2. I am constantly adjusting my flow rate
3. My efficiencies took no noticable hits.


So after 6 brews of doing fly sparging, I'm going back to batch sparging. I'm not a fan of adding on almost an hour onto my day, and honestly, I felt like I had more fun when I wasnt waiting around all day...

I know...

Please search BIAB. You'll be saved.

They're both totally fine, no shame in using one technique or another.

I personally fly sparge and don't mind that I get an extra hour of beer drinking and relaxing in the backyard on brew days

But I don't think It's better than batch or no sparge, they're all legit.

The decision to fly sparge (IMO) should be totally based on the equipment you are using and if it makes sense to do that rather than any of the other methods. They all do teh same thing, the biggest difference being the physical actions required to get the end product.

Owly said:

I do BIAB but to speed it up even more I just use DME and skip the mash all together, actually I just skip the boil too by just mixing in malt and hops in just the fermenter. I also speed it up by just blending in some potters to skip the ferment. You should totally give that a go next round if you don't believe me.

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agree, fly sparging isnt for everyone.

I have a eherms single tier system. I fly sparge 1/2bbl batches in about 45 min and I get 90% kettle efficiency. I don't think I'd save too much time to batch sparge. So it makes sense for me. My buddy brews 5 gallon batches with a cooler mash tun and batch sparges. It work great for him. So there is no right answer.

I went with batch sparging when I set up my equipment. I have always thought that fly sparging was meant to get a little more efficiency. Since then, I have not felt the need to add time or expense to my brewday.

BTW, I do some BIAB and am one that dislikes that process. It is a hot, wet, sticky mess. I could make it better but that would require a hoist, bigger pot, special bags. If I set up with that in mind initially maybe I would think differently.

I'm a self confessed no-sparger. It's a character stain myself and my family have to live with every day.

Choking down the resulting beers helps dull the pain.

I am brewing a Czech pilsner now. I achieved 92.7% mash efficiency with a 97.5% Barke Pilsner and 2.5% Carahell grain bill batch sparging. I anticipate over 70% brewhouse efficiency based on past experiences (because I leave trub behind in the kettle). I've been batch sparging for years and with results like that I see no reason to change.

sandyeggoxj said:

I have a eherms single tier system. I fly sparge 1/2bbl batches in about 45 min and I get 90% kettle efficiency. I don't think I'd save too much time to batch sparge. So it makes sense for me. My buddy brews 5 gallon batches with a cooler mash tun and batch sparges. It work great for him. So there is no right answer.

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While I agree there is no right answer, you use what works for you. However, I find it hard to believe that fly sparging adds an hour to the process.

Like sandyeggoxj, I fly sparge 1/2 bbl batches in about 45 minutes. I can't imagine that doing the initial run-off, fill, mix, then run-off again would be much quicker.

I think there is some misinformation out there that if you don't fly sparge for at least an hour you are doing it wrong. I fly sparge just long enough to get good efficiency. But I'm not Brewing for efficiency, I'm Brewing for quality and predictability. So if I'm Brewing 18 gallons of 10.5 Plato wort and get 11.5 Plato wort at 18 gallons, like yesterday, then I'm pissed that I overshot so much.

I believe, if nothing else, that this post shows that we each have to find the process that works best for each of us. No finger pointing. No: "Batch sparring is bad because of blah blah blah!" No: "Fly sparring sucks because of blah blah blah!" And no: "No sparge is stupid because of blah blah blah!" Instead we should all embrace: "I sparge the way I sparge because it works the best for my given system." Right?

Mike

I actually considered selling off my whole setup and going BIAB with a Grainfather or a Spiedel, but then decided against it. I have probably over $2,500 into my single tier setup.

I have tried fly sparging for 45, 60, 90 minutes and all seem to net the same results. I just feel that batch sparging is less work for me. Also with the E-herms system if I undershoot my mash out temp, I just recirculate for a little longer to raise the mash temp up. Which tends to give me a better rinse on the grains.

Next brew will be either another Zombie Dust clone (love that clone recipe here) or if I can get my hands on a RO system for the right price, I want to brew one of Kaiser's Alt, or a Czech Pilsner.

I find fly sparging takes slightly longer than batch sparging, but I still prefer fly sparging if I'm not in a hurry. On brew days where time is of the essence, I'll batch sparge, but if I've got nothing else going on that day and I can take my time, I prefer to fly sparge.

I get slightly higher efficiency with fly sparging, but the thing I like the most about it is that it's easier to hit my volumes. With fly sparging, I just fly sparge until I get the necessary volume in my boil kettle. With batch sparging, I have to be more careful about measuring out my volumes. If I'm collecting my second runnings, and the mash tun starts gurgling, but I'm still a half-gallon short in my kettle, well I'm probably just going to have a smaller batch this time. Not an issue with fly sparging.

kh54s10 said:

BTW, I do some BIAB and am one that dislikes that process. It is a hot, wet, sticky mess.

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I couldn't agree more! Here I thought I was the only one. But I had been sparging for years before I ever tried BIAB and so was set up for sparging and already comfortable with it. Lifting a hot wet bag of sticky after a mash is in no way preferable in my mind to simply closing the valve to the MT and getting on with the boil (IMHO, YMMV, yadda, yadda, yadda). I can understand BIAB for someone wanting to get started with a minimal equipment outlay, but otherwise I don't see myself going there.

Lining the MT with a BIAB bag, however, is win-win. I hardly have to vorlauf anymore.

I fly or batch sparge, sometimes depending on the size of the grain bill but also depending on my mood. Batch sparging is a little more hands-on, but I don't think it saves much time - maybe a half hour at most. In either case I am nearly at a boil by the time the sparge is done so I don't think the time involved matters that much.

SweetStout said:

Lining the MT with a BIAB bag, however, is win-win. I hardly have to vorlauf anymore.

I fly or batch sparge, sometimes depending on the size of the grain bill but also depending on my mood. Batch sparging is a little more hands-on, but I don't think it saves much time - maybe a half hour at most. In either case I am nearly at a boil by the time the sparge is done so I don't think the time involved matters that much.

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I have never lined the MT with a bag, but dumping the tun then spraying out the remaining grain beats getting the grain out of the bag any day. I'll take the trouble to vorlauf any day over cleaning the bag.

I can batch sparge in about 10-15 minutes. So it should be saving time. Though I lose time compared to you since I collect all the wort before heating to a boil. The couple of times that I tried heating while collecting the sparge I had massive boil overs. It came to a boil too soon for my attention.

kh54s10 said:

The couple of times that I tried heating while collecting the sparge I had massive boil overs. It came to a boil too soon for my attention.

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You must have a great burner! I just have a little Bayou burner, and I always start heating my runnings as soon as I start collecting them. I've never hit the boil before collecting all my wort, but it does save some time.

Does your kettle have an integrated thermometer? Maybe you could start heating your runnings, then throttle it back a little if you find you're approaching 212° F before you've collected all your wort?

kh54s10 said:

I have never lined the MT with a bag, but dumping the tun then spraying out the remaining grain beats getting the grain out of the bag any day.

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If you put the bag in inside-out, so that the smooth seam is inside, it helps with fewer pieces of grain getting stuck. I clean both bag and MT in a minute or two with a garden hose.

But I am not trying to argue - there are lots of ways to go about the brew day and if you make good beer and have fun doing it you're winning!

SweetStout said:

If you put the bag in inside-out, so that the smooth seam is inside, it helps with fewer pieces of grain getting stuck. I clean both bag and MT in a minute or two with a garden hose.

But I am not trying to argue - there are lots of ways to go about the brew day and if you make good beer and have fun doing it you're winning!

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I do this, it still takes a lot more effort to get most of the grain pieces (not all of them) off the bag. Still maybe 5 minutes max. But, hosing out my mash tun takes less than a minute. Lay it on it's side and blast away......

kombat said:

Does your kettle have an integrated thermometer? Maybe you could start heating your runnings, then throttle it back a little if you find you're approaching 212° F before you've collected all your wort?

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I brew electric, and my kettle will easily come to a boil before the sparge is done if I let it. I usually just "park" it at 200° F until I am done running off the MT. When I am ready, I let it rip and it will be at a boil in a minute or so. So no worries about distraction leading to a boil over.

kombat said:

You must have a great burner! I just have a little Bayou burner, and I always start heating my runnings as soon as I start collecting them. I've never hit the boil before collecting all my wort, but it does save some time.

Does your kettle have an integrated thermometer? Maybe you could start heating your runnings, then throttle it back a little if you find you're approaching 212° F before you've collected all your wort?

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No integrated thermometer. I could watch the temperature and get it started. It is mostly that I have most often collected the wort first. So when I started heating when collecting the sparge it got to boil over temps way before I expected... Big mess...

I can't park mine, as I can only run one element at a time, so its dedicated to maintaining the MT Temp through the HLT.

I must be fly sparging wrong. I drain the wort at the same rate as when I batch sparged. The only difference is with one method I drain all the wort out before refilling the MLT back up and in the other I constantly replace what I take. My efficency is in the upper 80's.

BBBF said:

I must be fly sparging wrong. I drain the wort at the same rate as when I batch sparged. The only difference is with one method I drain all the wort out before refilling the MLT back up and in the other I constantly replace what I take. My efficency is in the upper 80's.

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It doesn't sound like you're doing anything wrong if you're getting good efficiency, but usually a batch sparge is drained as fast as possible. Then new water added, stirred, vorlaufed, etc. The shorter time spent sparging is one of the main advantages to doing it batch.

If you're running off as slow as you fly sparge, then that's not really a problem as long as you're willing to spend the time. But then, why do batch at all.

kh54s10 said:

I have never lined the MT with a bag, but dumping the tun then spraying out the remaining grain beats getting the grain out of the bag any day. I'll take the trouble to vorlauf any day over cleaning the bag.

I can batch sparge in about 10-15 minutes. So it should be saving time. Though I lose time compared to you since I collect all the wort before heating to a boil. The couple of times that I tried heating while collecting the sparge I had massive boil overs. It came to a boil too soon for my attention.

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I'm a 2-vessel-HLT BIAB-plus-false-bottom-kinda-grant-thingey-RIMS-mash-tun (+batch sparge), drain-into-kettle-and-carry-to-garage-outdoor-BK indoor-outdoor brewer. Pretty standard.


(edit: for me I love being able to lift a bag of grain out & pretty easily put it in a trash bag vs. lifting my full-of-wet-grain bottom-draining keggle off its stand out down the deck to then dump out in a corner of the yard and have feral beasts feed on & neighbors give me dirty looks re: the ethanol plant smell wafting around. Brewhouse differences! Plus I have thrown everything I can at the bag and have had no flow / drain issues, which I can't say the same for my FB, and I don't use rice hulls anymore so'z I can eat the grain if I want).

Homercidal said:

The decision to fly sparge (IMO) should be totally based on the equipment you are using and if it makes sense to do that rather than any of the other methods. They all do teh same thing, the biggest difference being the physical actions required to get the end product.

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Yep for sure!

poptarts said:

agree, fly sparging isnt for everyone.

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Totally true!. You have to have the correct equipment set up to do it right without adding a bunch of time and issues.

Min for min, my set up only adds about 20 min to the brewday over Batch sparging. But it's a whole lot more relaxing for me. I like the set it and forget it ability of "Fly Sparging"

Cheers
Jay

Batch sparging all the way, for me. My brew day is shortened, I have fewer things to put away when it’s done, and the resulting beer does not suffer one iota as a result. Count me in.

Just to let you know. I gave Fly sparging one more shot... Disaster... I hate it... Going back to batch Sparging. Its settled.

I fly sparge. It takes maybe 30 minutes to get to my 6.5 gallon boil volume. Since I brew in the early morning it gives me a chance to drink my coffee.

I can never seem to hit my mash out temp and I can never get my flow-rates correct by eyeballing them.

Bowtiebrewery said:

Just to let you know. I gave Fly sparging one more shot... Disaster... I hate it... Going back to batch Sparging. Its settled.

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You are getting the same end result in a different way. Do what you like to do! I think the whole point of the hobby is to have fun making good beer.

I batch sparge. I've batch sparged the entire time I've been brewing. I will probably be giving fly sparging a go when I get my EHERMS system up and running because I think it will be easier and makes more sense at that time. I won't be switching because I think it's a better lautering system. It's because I think the rig would be designed so that fly sparging is easier.

I often wonder if all the people complaining about cleaning a BIAB bag out have actually ever tried it. You have to shake it with it inside out, hose it off and shake it again. In really bad cases one more time. It takes one minute maximum.

I started off with a Denny Conn style rectangular cooler (which I still use on occasion) and the single best cleaning and wort improvement I made to it was the decision to add a voile curtain and bungee cords as an external filter. The fact that you never need rice hulls and a stuck sparge doesn't happen with bags or with the cooler it's just a tug... well...

I now went eBIAB single vessel and I sort of fly sparge as I decided to use a Chugger to recirculate the wort during mash, mainly to keep the temperature from stratifying. I still stir several times in the bag and squeeze the bag. For a "new" system, it's absolutely a good idea because you are saving 2/3 the cost of a 3V system. I still occasionally have a ghetto HLT and sparge.. depends on what I'm making.