So, about a year ago, when I first got into making mead, I used a couple recipes from the site Storm the Castle, which seemed fairly informed on how to make mead. I have since progressed to BOMMs, in original and sweet versions, so I know my technique is at least decent. However, about a week or so ago, I tried my StC sweet, and it was basically honey and bread. This had been going for a year at this point. Did I just get poor advice on a recipe, or did I completely screw up my very first mead? There was one nutrient addition, at about two days into primary fermentation, for both the semisweet (which I have not yet tasted) and the sweet, which led to my very first mead geyser (aka welcome to mazing). Will further aging help get rid of the sense that i'm drinking a honey sandwich, or should I think of this as a valuable learning experience and just drink the rest of my honey sandwich quickly (hey, it's still alcohol).
Storm the Castle Sweet Mead Issue
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MarshmallowBlue
Well-Known Member
If it's too sweet, just pitch some wine yeast. Some breadiness might stay from the bread yeast, but at least you'll have knocked the sweetness down. You can also rack onto a bunch of fruit to cover up the off flavors.
Just a couple things to try if you would dump otherwise.
Just a couple things to try if you would dump otherwise.
bernardsmith
Well-Known Member
In my opinion, there are very few good "recipes" out there and most recipes suggest poor understanding of process and principles.. so if you have a good grasp of principles you can ignore recipes except for the fact that some recipes provide new ideas for you to think about in light of principles... so , for example, hopped meads, or sour meads or quick meads... and that said, I don't think that you can go from recipes to understanding principles.. The arrow moves from principles to recipes... But I am sure that there are 100 or more people on this site who would completely disagree with me and this post.
I agree with Blue fix it. I would not drink a "honey sandwich". It can be "saved" If your first mead is "crap" don't dump it, fix it. You have been brewing long enough and have the skills to do so. Make it good, learn from it and move on.
Here is what i would do....
- Rack off the lees (if any) until clear.
- Add a pound of honey if a 1 gallon batch or 5 pounds if 5 gallon.(Optional but if you want the yeast to overcome the ones already there you need to feed them.)
- Hydrate and pitch a good high ABV tolerant champagne yeast. (EC1118 goes to 18% and does give off some nice fruit flavors.)
- Let it ferment as far as it will go and rack until clear it will help to blow out the off flavors.
- Add fruit to bring back the sweetness. Might ferment a bit more but should leave some residual sugars and berry flavor. Will definitely get some of the bread yeast like qualities out of it.
- Rack again until clear and age. (It will age well.)
I actually did this with a failed BOMM (My fault not the recipe) and ended up with a 17% Melomel that is going to age very well.
Finally my opinion about recipes.
FIRST
Use good practices... (You have learned a bunch of them with the BOMMS and your first few attempts prior)
Each Mazer has their own techniques and practices, none are wrong, just different.
As Bernard mentioned - Once you have solid practices use or develop a recipe...
Be sure to experiment, document and capture what works for you along the way. Then continue to perfect your own recipe and ultimately your craft.
This statement below is probably the wisest statement made by anyone delving into the practice of turning honey into mead, and I believe the best advice anyone should hear.
If you were successful, which I am 99% certain you will be, then enjoy your mead. When you get ready to make different mead you will probably have to unlearn some of these practices I have taught you, but hey--- This recipe and procedure works with these ingredients so don't knock it. - Joe Mattioli (Joes Ancient Orange Mead or JAOM)
Good luck - Let us know how it comes out.
bernardsmith
Well-Known Member
Yeah , but Joe is a great mead maker and this recipe is quite brilliant because it is entirely counter-intuitive to anyone who makes mead. It works precisely because Joe REALLY understands the processes and if you make any changes to that recipe (use a different yeast; agitate the must; don't use the fruit he suggests; bottle sooner; use a different quantity of honey...) the recipe will not work. It is to mead making like painting by numbers is to art, but it produces a very drinkable mead.. And to make any other mead you DO have to "unlearn" his recipe.
Damnore - I think we hijacked your thread. (Sorry) If this debate continues I will start a new topic or PM Bernard. The intent of the rather lengthy rant posted earlier was to encourage you to do what you think is best. I don't believe aging will remove the "honey sandwich" sweetness but it could help the bread yeast flavor over time. I do not believe it is a lost cause and believe you can change it to be more suitable to your liking. One of the ways to do that i mentioned above. (There are many others I would encourage you to choose one that might work and go for it.)
Bernard
I wanted to be true to the quote, not sure i would have used the word "Unlearn" if I would have made the statement. In my opinion you absolutely do not have to "unlearn" some of the practices and techniques Joe teaches (or anyone else teaches for that matter). I read and interpreted "unlearn" as... You may not choose to practice those techniques or recipe. But there may be times when some or all of them are applicable. (I would not want to have to re-learn all of the stuff that I have learned and did not turn out well for me.)
Yes Joe's recipe is brilliant. Brilliant because of its simplicity and the fact he found a protocol or recipe that most of us can follow if we follow it exactly. Thus the problem with recipes in general and following someones protocols vs. your own.
"Paint by Numbers" - Great visual - It put a black felt fuzzy poster in my head, not really a true paint by numbers painting and in my opinion even a further step away from true art. Nice!
AND as i said...
Each Mazer has their own techniques and practices, none are wrong, just different.
Once you have solid practices use or develop your own recipe...
Be sure to experiment, document and capture what works for you along the way. Then continue to perfect your own recipe and ultimately your craft.
UPDATE: I used either 71B or RC212 for the recipes, can't remember which.
Just tried the semisweet made at the same time, same yeast, different honey type, less initial honey. Tastes like a local semidry produced commercially. I'm thinking this narrows my problem with the sweet to stuck fermentation, the honey type used, or some combination of both. I'm reluctant to pitch a champagne yeast into it, since I have other uses for the carboy and don't really feel like leaving it another 6-12 months. Guess I'll just drink my honey sandwich and consider it a lesson learned.
Just tried the semisweet made at the same time, same yeast, different honey type, less initial honey. Tastes like a local semidry produced commercially. I'm thinking this narrows my problem with the sweet to stuck fermentation, the honey type used, or some combination of both. I'm reluctant to pitch a champagne yeast into it, since I have other uses for the carboy and don't really feel like leaving it another 6-12 months. Guess I'll just drink my honey sandwich and consider it a lesson learned.
