Recirculating mash, don't want a clogged pump

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seven9st_surfer

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I've been doing BIAB for a few years now, and want to make the switch to eBIAB with a recirculating mash, using one of these 24v pumps. My concern is that all the sediment that I get in the mash will clog the pump up. I know recirculating mash eBIAB is doable, I'm just wondering how people are guarding against a clogged pump. And I know someone is going to say to just buy a Chugger or March pump, but it's a bit out of the budget right now, especially after doing a full electric conversion with a control panel.

Currently, I'm using this bag from Morebeer. It's worked okay, but I'm wondering if getting a new bag from either Wilserbrewer or Brewinabag.com will help filter some more of the trub out. My bag says it's made from nylon, not voile, so I'm guessing a voile bag would be better?

Or, should I add some sort of filter to my pickup tube? Right now, I've got an unfiltered side pickup for whirlpooling, then filtering with a 400 micron screen before going into the fermenter. Should I add a bazooka screen or something to my pickup tube?

Or just do both a new voile bag and a pickup tube screen? Or something else?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I feel like there is a real need for a "trash pump" for rims systems that will allow you to recirculate without any fear of clogging. If I were designing it, the pump would be designed just like one of those sump pumps where the motor is on a stem far above the liquid level, and the impeller would be a very simple crude affair much like an automotive water pump. The is absolutely no reason not to circulate grain and all....... with a properly designed pump.

I did recirculated BIAB mash a couple of times using one of those cheap 12 volt food grade pumps before I decided that circulating through the bag was a bad idea..... It's a far better idea in my opinion to circulate within the bag than through the bag, as the fines tend to plug the weave in the bag.

That said, about 4 or 5 brews ago, I quit mashing in a bag........... I now ONLY use the bag as a filter, pouring the mash through the bag, and then using the bag to dunk sparge. I'm not doing a full volume mash anymore, but using around 50-70% and dunk sparging with the remainder. My efficiency has shot up significantly.

I did this because my LHBS now only has HUGE bags designed for 5 gallon and larger brews, so I'm forced to use paint strainer bags, which are not quite large enough.

H.W.
 
I use a march pump with no issues and really would recommend you step up to that.

Now that the obligatory "do things right the first time" is over, here are two ideas:

1) Use a mesh screen on your outlet on the inside of the pot and this will help to strain larger particulates:
51feX-3vbqL._SL1200_.jpg


2) Use an RV water strainer:

The issue with doing things this way is that if any of the two clog, you can't fix it until the mash is over... You should be able to clean the rv strainer with forcing water through the outlet to essentially backflush.

41O9eNAN30L.jpg

That's what I would try.....

2015-05-26 19.18.50.jpg


2015-05-26 20.57.05.jpg
 
I haven't tried it, as I have no desire to complicate the BIAB process, but I also feel any particulates getting through a poly voile bag are so small that clogging a pump is not likely....however YMMV.

I would suggest insulating the kettle, so as to minimize the work required for the element and the pump, and again JMO, if you insulate the kettle, you don't need to recirculate and add heat....just my simpleton opinion....have fun whatever you decide.

Cheers
Wilser
 
Thanks for the replies. I think what I'm going to do is get a new bag with a finer mesh, use a splatter screen false bottom (more so to keep the bag off the heating elements, but I'll take any filtering it give me, too), and add some braided stainless to the end of my pickup tube. And that's a good point about anything fine enough to get through the bag probably not clogging a pump.

Maybe I've overthinking this, but it's better than under-thinking it! And I've got to do something while all my control panel parts are on a slow boat from China...
 
I wouldn't bother with an additional mesh screen on the intake, stainless braid works well to filter a mash, yet I have heard of braids clogging under a FB as there is no husk only fines and the braid chokes with only fines, it needs a mash with husks to work as intended.
 
ChocolateMaltyBalls said:
If enough stuff gets through your bag to clog a pump (even a small pump) then you have a bigger problem like a rip.
Click to expand...

That's kinda the conclusion I'm coming to. I just pulled the trigger on a Brew Bag from brewinabag.com, advertised as 90 threads per inch, or #90 mesh, or about 160 micron. Anything that gets through that shouldn't be too much of a problem I would think. I guess I was just spooked because my old bag was kind of cheap, and I guess a pretty coarse mesh, because I always have tons of small grains in my kettle afterwards. I'm probably going to do a brew or 2 with the new bag before the whole electric setup is up and running, so I'll be able to gauge whether or not I need extra filtration.

Thanks for the help, guys!
 
I've been recirculating with a small 12volt pump for over a year now and haven't had any problems with the pump plugging up. One time that I used Golden Promise grain and a double crush I had the bag it self restrict the flow to the pump and my pot filled up and some came out the top. I wouldn't worry so much about it myself. I've used different types of bags too and currently use a rather fine mesh with success. Jump in and try it.
 
seven9st_surfer said:
Thanks for the replies. I think what I'm going to do is get a new bag with a finer mesh, use a splatter screen false bottom (more so to keep the bag off the heating elements, but I'll take any filtering it give me, too), and add some braided stainless to the end of my pickup tube. And that's a good point about anything fine enough to get through the bag probably not clogging a pump.

Maybe I've overthinking this, but it's better than under-thinking it! And I've got to do something while all my control panel parts are on a slow boat from China...
Click to expand...

What kettle do you have for your electric BIAB?

My current thought is to have both the element and temperature sensor close to the same height from the bottom and below a false bottom / screen for the PID to maintain the desired mash temp - with or without a pump.

MS
 
1MadScientist said:
What kettle do you have for your electric BIAB?

My current thought is to have both the element and temperature sensor close to the same height from the bottom and below a false bottom / screen for the PID to maintain the desired mash temp - with or without a pump.

MS
Click to expand...

I'm using the 44qt Bayou Classic with a DIY false bottom made from an OXO splatter screen and SS bolts for legs, but I haven't actually done the conversion yet. Still waiting on parts. As far as probe placement, I've been doing some research. With a false bottom, it sounds like some people are getting some temp stratification without recirculating, as the false bottom acts as a thermal barrier between the elements and the mash. Recirculation fixes that. Even with doing that though, some people report overshooting temperatures with the probe in the kettle. If you have it built into your recirc line somewhere (right as it enters the kettle seems to be the most popular), it shows exactly what temp is going into the kettle, and is able to better maintain temp. That's what I'm planning on doing.
 
Question for you guys already re-circing

What differences have you noticed? Considering it's going to ultimately cost me like $200 for this (chugger + tubing + fittings), have you seen a considerable uptick in your ability to control temp?

I just brewed a blonde ale and noticed that when I took temps of the mash (inside my BIAB bag) I was getting readings of 150 but my kettle thermometer was at like 180. I definitely think there's a lot of stratification in BIAB temps. Just curious what your experiences have been with mash temps since you've elected to re-circ.

Thanks
 
Recirculating with a PID and a heat source controlled by it, temps hold within about 0.1 degrees. No need to recirculate with a pump without a heat source and controller.
 
I use the 44 quart Bayou classic with the basket on propane burner. I place the basket in the pot then place the bag in the basket and it hangs over the top of the pot. Fill the pot with water holding back one gallon and heat the water to about 157 degrees using a thermometer dropped into the water. Once the water reaches the desired temperature cut off the burner and put the grains in and stir them up. I then put the lid on the pot and hook up the pump using quick connects. I have a bulkhead fitting installed under the basket with a tee connected to it. I have a short 3" thermometer mounted directly into the tee. The tee is facing to the right looking at the pot. On the right side of the tee I have connected a valve and then a 90 which is facing back away from the front with a quick connect connected to it. My pump is installed by hooking it to the quick connect and on the outlet of the pump I have another quick connect that I hook a hose to that goes to the lid with a 90 and a quick connect and a bulkhead fitting in the lid. Inside the lid I have a 1/2" landscape sprayhead mounted to the bulkhead. Once I get this connected I open the valve and start the pump up. The wort is spayed into the pot and is pulled through the grains and bag into the space below the basket into the pump. The wort passes over the thermometer on it's way to the pump. I just watch the thermometer and when the temp drops a couple of degrees I light the burner and bring the temp back up, this happens a few times in the hour that I'm mashing. I could put some type of insulation on the pot to reduce the need to refire the burner but it's not that big of a deal to light the burner. When the hour is up I cut off the pump, close the valve, drain the hose into a container and lift the basket slowly while it drains some and set a couple pieces of aluminum angle on top of the pot and set the basket down on top of them. I then pour the gallon of water I held back at the beginning over the grains into the pot which cools them off while rinsing them. I then take a small bowl and push down on the grains to get more wort out. After doing this I throw out the grains and pour in the wort that I drained out of the pump and hose and fire up the burner to get to boiling. This is very easy to do and doesn't have many ways it can hang up unless the bag gets plugged up with to fine of particles. Throw some music on and watch the thermometer.
 
newnick said:
I use the 44 quart Bayou classic with the basket on propane burner. I place the basket in the pot then place the bag in the basket and it hangs over the top of the pot. Fill the pot with water holding back one gallon and heat the water to about 157 degrees using a thermometer dropped into the water. Once the water reaches the desired temperature cut off the burner and put the grains in and stir them up. I then put the lid on the pot and hook up the pump using quick connects. I have a bulkhead fitting installed under the basket with a tee connected to it. I have a short 3" thermometer mounted directly into the tee. The tee is facing to the right looking at the pot. On the right side of the tee I have connected a valve and then a 90 which is facing back away from the front with a quick connect connected to it. My pump is installed by hooking it to the quick connect and on the outlet of the pump I have another quick connect that I hook a hose to that goes to the lid with a 90 and a quick connect and a bulkhead fitting in the lid. Inside the lid I have a 1/2" landscape sprayhead mounted to the bulkhead. Once I get this connected I open the valve and start the pump up. The wort is spayed into the pot and is pulled through the grains and bag into the space below the basket into the pump. The wort passes over the thermometer on it's way to the pump. I just watch the thermometer and when the temp drops a couple of degrees I light the burner and bring the temp back up, this happens a few times in the hour that I'm mashing. I could put some type of insulation on the pot to reduce the need to refire the burner but it's not that big of a deal to light the burner. When the hour is up I cut off the pump, close the valve, drain the hose into a container and lift the basket slowly while it drains some and set a couple pieces of aluminum angle on top of the pot and set the basket down on top of them. I then pour the gallon of water I held back at the beginning over the grains into the pot which cools them off while rinsing them. I then take a small bowl and push down on the grains to get more wort out. After doing this I throw out the grains and pour in the wort that I drained out of the pump and hose and fire up the burner to get to boiling. This is very easy to do and doesn't have many ways it can hang up unless the bag gets plugged up with to fine of particles. Throw some music on and watch the thermometer.
Click to expand...

I do almost the same thing but no basket.
 
I'm hooked on the basket, always have been. It makes things so easy. Of course that is my opinion.
 
I recirculate, never had an issue with grains clogging the pump. I've gotten hop bits in when recirculating to chill and whole cone hops jam the crap of it.

But, other then that no problem at the mash side.

I'd agree with others though, I don't see a point unless you have like a RIMS/HERMS for temp control.
 

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