Brew student set up

I am going to a fermentation science program in the Fall and relocating to another part of the country. I've been a partial-mash brewer at home and never had an all-grain set up myself yet. Advice on some or more is greatly appreciated. I'm going through the database too, but if you know some on hand that would help, I'd appreciated a point in the direction.

1 I'm hoping to squirrel away about 3000 by the time we leave for a new set-up. I am a DIY person but also recognize the importance of the best tools for projects. What should I spare no expense on and what should I design myself? What would be a good setup as far as equipment is concerned?

Size variability, batches between 10 and 20 (sessionable beer at 20) gallons

2 Safety for my girlfriend and I is paramount as we will both be utilizing the equipment at least three to four days a week. What are other considerations for safety?

3 Pumps are attractive and will at least give me an understanding of the plumbing systems of a commercial brewery. The gravity towers seem dubious. If y'all feel a bench system isn't worthwhile I'm all ears!

4 What about plumbing materials? Tubes or pipers? Clamps?

5 What about mash tuns this size? I don't think I've found coolers large enough for 15 gallons of wort with grain. What is another method to maintain temps for 90 minutes? I see some fly and continuous sparges. Is this not equipment-specific? Recommendations?

6 What is worthwhile for a chiller? We are seeking to maintain good water efficiency and the plate chiller option into a hot liquor tank was what I was hoping to put together. Are there other lower-tech options I'm not aware of?

7 I've never worked keg equipment but I'm eager to not have to bottle everything we brew! I have no idea what to do for this. What equipment should I get found in beginner kits and what should I spend more for ? I know some connections are harder to find compatibility for but other advice is appreciated.

8 Bottling: am I stuck with the damn bottling rod or is there a moderately cheap option that fills more bottles in a go?

9 What sanitization/caustic chemicals should I be using for respective parts?

Of you want to do 20 gallon batches your biggest(necessary) expense is gonna be at least one giant kettle. You could get away with a 25 gallon if you use fermcap, but will probably be happier with 30. I really like welded fittings personally but you can probably save some money drilling them yourself and going weldless or silver soldering g the fittings yourself. Not having a drain calve really isn't an option with batches bigger than 5 gallons. I'm not sure if you can get coolers bog enough, I see a second huge kettle and a ton of hardware store insulation as a solution. With 3k to spend I wouldn't think twice about the 200 or so for a chugger pump. Normally I'm all about the 20 dollar 24v pumps, but 20 gallons is a lot of liquid to get them to move around. Safety isn't a huge concern with a propane burner, you can obviously tell when its lit and you probably shouldn't touch the things that are on fire. How stationary is your setup going to be? If you know its going to sit in the same place always, hard plumb everything with 1/2 or 3/4 inch copper. If you have to tear it down and store it go with silicone hose and hose clamps, both are worth about the same. Chiller is up to you. Plate chillers are more water efficient but clog easily. Counterflows can be built out of copper pipe and heavy duty garden hose but will use more water, go 20ft minimum. Kegging is expensive no matter how you look at it but is the one upgrade I continue to really, really want. Here's hoping this helps you get started thinking about what you want, I'm sure other people with better equipment than me will chime in as welk

2 Safety for my girlfriend and I is paramount as we will both be utilizing the equipment at least three to four days a week. What are other considerations for safety?

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So are yo saying you'll bee brewing 3-4 times a week? If that is the case, I think you would be hating life using a gravity fed build it up year it down type system.

If that is the frequency you plan to brew you should also be looking at an electric setup instead of gas.

I personally would look at a single tier, electric, pump driven system if I were brewing weekly. A 10g premade setup could be done for the $3k you hope to have. 20g seems a bit more of a reach without some significant DIY.

If I could go back Id get the Breaumeister 10 gal setup. Consider it. Compact, easy, electric, in your price range assuming you have some plan for ferm temp control.

jekeane said:

So are yo saying you'll bee brewing 3-4 times a week? If that is the case, I think you would be hating life using a gravity fed build it up year it down type system.

If that is the frequency you plan to brew you should also be looking at an electric setup instead of gas.

I personally would look at a single tier, electric, pump driven system if I were brewing weekly. A 10g premade setup could be done for the $3k you hope to have. 20g seems a bit more of a reach without some significant DIY.

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I'm not sure why the frequency means he should go electric vs. gas. If the school he's attending is in CA, natural gas is by far cheaper than electic, and probably less work.

What OP hasn't told us is where he's going, whether he'll be renting, brewing indoors or out, there's so much more here. Also, I don't know how brewing 10-20g 3-4 times a week conforms with any laws...not that its any of my business, but even with my copious beer drinking friends I don't think we could back 100 Gallons a week.

This is a classic case of "slow down" IMHO. Learn more about the brewing process. You could end up buying completely wrong equipment and wasting your money.

If it's truly brewing that often, 5G will make so much more sense, saving you money on the brew set up to put toward a kegging setup. All in all, with as many kegs as you're going to need, and the associated kegerator costs (faucets, Co2 tanks, regulators, QDs, gas line, beer line, fittings, refrigerator(s)) ...well, I think you'll find your 3k is going to go much faster than you realize.

jbaysurfer said:

I'm not sure why the frequency means he should go electric vs. gas. If the school he's attending is in CA, natural gas is by far cheaper than electric, and probably less work.

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I can't speak to CA exact costs but it is I would think the biggest exception to the rule. Kal from the electric brewery says with his data that:
"It costs us about $1.60 in electricity to brew 10 gallons of beer, assuming we brew during peak electrical rates ($0.12/kWh). If we brew on the weekends or evenings when the rate is half the peak rate, the cost is about $0.80. $0.12/kWh also happens to be the average US national rate so most US brewers should expect similar costs." and "in most locations the cost to brew with natural gas is 2-3 times higher than electricity, while propane is 5-10 times higher."

Other than the electric point. I agree with everything you said about the OP slowing down.

You'll want to consider fermentation temperatures as well. If you're planning on brewing 3-4 times a week and having 40-80 gallons of beer fermenting you're going to need a way to maintain temperatures. If this means 15 gallon conicals or 3 6.5 gallon carboys it makes a difference as the heat from fermentation requires more temperature control for a 15 gallon batch than a 5 gallon batch. You'll also want a lot of space to store all the beer plus the kegs when they're full or empty.

Everyone will have the places they're willing to cut costs. Maybe you use an immersion chiller because you want to build a single tier three burner stand with two pumps, quick disconnects, silicone hoses and 20 gallon stainless steel pots. Maybe you want a plate chiller and you're fine with a large cooler as a mash tun and find an old camp chef stove on craigslist and make it work for a gravity feed using kegs. You have to decide what is a priority for you. It involves research and you should read 25 threads completely before making 1 new thread. You'll learn a lot more and make the right decision for you and your girlfriend.

jekeane said:

I can't speak to CA exact costs but it is I would think the biggest exception to the rule. Kal from the electric brewery says with his data that:
"It costs us about $1.60 in electricity to brew 10 gallons of beer, assuming we brew during peak electrical rates ($0.12/kWh). If we brew on the weekends or evenings when the rate is half the peak rate, the cost is about $0.80. $0.12/kWh also happens to be the average US national rate so most US brewers should expect similar costs." and "in most locations the cost to brew with natural gas is 2-3 times higher than electricity, while propane is 5-10 times higher."

Other than the electric point. I agree with everything you said about the OP slowing down.

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Yeah, I've seen that. It doesn't take into account tiered usage. Where I live we're already into the more expensive tier of usage and the baseline tier is considerably more expensive than Kal's example, in fact, it's 33% higher at .16/kWh. The 2nd Tier is .19kWh, and the 3rd tier (where most homes do end up every month) is a whopping .25kWh

I do think electric is cool, clean, simple and I love the automation, and personally I have installed a subpanel in my garage to accommodate it, in spite of the fact it's more expensive than natural gas.

But I'm assuming the OP is a renter if he's moving to go to school for fermenation sciences. Given UC Davis' recent explosion in their program, I figure there's at least a coinflip this guy is coming to CA for school where electricity is very expensive and doing things like installing subpanels in rentals is kind of a no-no.

So anyway, that's all a bit tangential, but wanted to share where I was coming from on it.

Looks like my old post got lost somehow. To answer the gaps I left unfilled:

I am moving to central Michigan for the program and plan to move again for work. I am heeding your collective advice to slow down, but I have some good reasons for seeking a larger system. Both my fiance and I are attending the program. We would like a setup that we can grow into, something scalable.

What I don't want to do is find us equipment we need to resell to upgrade in size. A 5 or 10g brew kettle will always be useful, but pump suited for a 5g probably won't be for a 20g. Little details like this are what I should be elucidating a bit more. What is worth buying big with room to grow, and what is worth keeping small and fiscally prudent?

We were planning to make large batches that we could split for our respective projects which is also why we were seeking a larger volume. 3-4 brews a week wouldn't mean at full capacity (of 10g or more per brew) and would be at peak times of the semesters, not necessarily every week.

Electric is sounding more and more appealing to me. It looks like the Braumeister is highly regarded on the webs, but unless I got a good deal on a used system there would be no room in the budget for the additional needs. There is the Blichmann stackable system that is able to be adapted to electric and gas which is attractive. Are there limitations on these systems in terms of control?

Would a digital autoclave also be a suitable vessel if electric is sought? They run for a fraction of the price and could hold temperatures for as long as needed.

DurtyChemist said:

You have to decide what is a priority for you. It involves research and you should read 25 threads completely before making 1 new thread. You'll learn a lot more and make the right decision for you and your girlfriend.

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While I appreciate everything else you had to share, it's presumptuous to insinuate I am not doing my homework. You have mistaken me for someone who isn't putting a lot of time into learning this wide world. Books, articles, and yes, heavy reading on this great site. And as you pointed out, preferences are greatly subjective, which is why I tried to make it clear that my intentions are to transition toward a professional role. Much of the content on this site is focused on us as home brewers.

I agree that my follow-up questions are ones I am finding good information on elsewhere but there seemed an interest to discuss them in the thread and pertained to questions and information brought up after the thread was started (electric system for example). You've got valuable information to share, no doubt I appreciate it, but please consider more how you deliver it.

xico said:

While I appreciate everything else you had to share, it's presumptuous to insinuate I am not doing my homework. You have mistaken me for someone who isn't putting a lot of time into learning this wide world. Books, articles, and yes, heavy reading on this great site. And as you pointed out, preferences are greatly subjective, which is why I tried to make it clear that my intentions are to transition toward a professional role. Much of the content on this site is focused on us as home brewers.

I agree that my follow-up questions are ones I am finding good information on elsewhere but there seemed an interest to discuss them in the thread and pertained to questions and information brought up after the thread was started (electric system for example). You've got valuable information to share, no doubt I appreciate it, but please consider more how you deliver it.

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How else would you like for me to tell you you're asking for people's opinions on what is most important to building a brewery? since you're focused on going professional you might want to ask professionals, and not home brewers.

Things you can always grow into are your kettles. If you're doing smaller 5 gallon batches for school and want to do the occasional 20 gallon batch 30 gallon kettles should suffice.

The only thing to note when doing smaller batches in larger kettles is ensuring your heating elements and temp probes (if you go electric) will be fully submerged.

Speaking of going electric, check out KAL's website www.theelectricbrewery.com. There is a plethora of useful information. Additionally, the electric brewing forum on here has a ton of information.

You can save some money with your tight budget (yes, $3k for a 20 gallon system is tight), by building the panel and drilling kettles yourself. If you build a panel yourself, check out PJ's diagrams in the electric forum. You can find the base for almost anything you desire already there and can tweak to your needs.

The same pumps on the scale that we brew work fine for 5-20 gallons. Most folks use Chugger or March pumps. They'll be able to move enough liquid to stabilize temps during your mash as well as transfer liquids without it taking a year.

Fermentation is going to be a big deal for you. Given the amount you'll be brewing you'd blow your entire $3k on Conicals alone. You'd probably be better suited to build a ferm chamber or two. and use either brew buckets or carboys. That is, unless you're fermenting these things at school given the nature of the courses.

Brewing as much as you are you'll also likely want a CFC or plate chiller. My preference is CFC.

Spend big on a quality 3-roller grain mill. That amount of use will pay for a nicer mill in no time.

DurtyChemist said:

You'll want to consider fermentation temperatures as well. If you're planning on brewing 3-4 times a week and having 40-80 gallons of beer fermenting you're going to need a way to maintain temperatures. If this means 15 gallon conicals or 3 6.5 gallon carboys it makes a difference as the heat from fermentation requires more temperature control for a 15 gallon batch than a 5 gallon batch. You'll also want a lot of space to store all the beer plus the kegs when they're full or empty.

Everyone will have the places they're willing to cut costs. Maybe you use an immersion chiller because you want to build a single tier three burner stand with two pumps, quick disconnects, silicone hoses and 20 gallon stainless steel pots. Maybe you want a plate chiller and you're fine with a large cooler as a mash tun and find an old camp chef stove on craigslist and make it work for a gravity feed using kegs. You have to decide what is a priority for you. It involves research and you should read 25 threads completely before making 1 new thread. You'll learn a lot more and make the right decision for you and your girlfriend.

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I thought this wonderful, well thought out advice and well delivered fwiw.

Buy a cheap used 8-10 gallon pot and do BIAB on the stove top and save your money. The school may let you use the lab rig. The bottom line on building a HB system is their is 1000's of ways to do it, and the spending can be endless.