How do you insulate your kettle?

DoctorMemory · Mar 2, 2015

Did my second BIAB brew yesterday and wound up missing my OG by several points. I'm pretty sure it's due to the crazy temperature swings I had during the mash. I heated my water up to 160, then added my grain and stirred. When the temp dropped to 155 I pulled the kettle off the burner and put it on a pallet and wrapped it with an old sleeping bag. Fifteen minutes later, the temperature was down to 148. I put the kettle back on the burner, heated it back up to 160, then pulled it off again and put it back on the pallet. By that time it had overshot to 170, so I stirred until I got the temp down to 158, then wrapped the sleeping bag around it again. Fifteen minutes later I was down to 149, so I just pulled the bag and started my boil, figuring I wouldn't get any more conversion.

My kettle's wider than it is tall, which may be contributing to my problem, but if anyone could suggest some way to hold in the heat, I'd really appreciate it. My kettle's a decent Winco 10G SS, so it's not a thin aluminium thing. It was pretty cold yesterday (~25F with freezing rain), but I can't believe it would just cool off that fast with a sleeping bag wrapped around it.

augiedoggy · Mar 2, 2015

DoctorMemory said:
Did my second BIAB brew yesterday and wound up missing my OG by several point. I'm pretty sure it's due to the crazy temperature swings I had during the mash. I heated my water up to 160, then added my grain and stirred. When the temp dropped to 155 I pulled the kettle off the burner and put it on a pallet and wrapped it with an old sleeping bag. Fifteen minutes later, the temperature was down to 148. I put the kettle back on the burner, heated it back up to 160, then pulled it off again and put it back on the pallet. By that time it had overshot to 170, so I stirred until I got the temp down to 158, then wrapped the sleeping bag around it again. Fifteen minutes later I was down to 149, so I just pulled the bag and started my boil, figuring I wouldn't get any more conversion.

My kettle's wider than it is tall, which may be contributing to my problem, but if anyone could suggest some way to hold in the heat, I'd really appreciate it. My kettle's a decent Winco 10G SS, so it's not a thin aluminium thing. It was pretty cold yesterday (~25F with freezing rain), but I can't believe it would just cool off that fast with a sleeping bag wrapped around it.

Your not alone, theres a lot of ways people deal with this.

I use a rims tube to solve this problem... some use a herms, some use a cooler MT and some direct fire their mt while mashing and recirculating from the bottom to the top with a pump to maintain temps ($18 food grade 12-24vdc pumps work great for this)...and some use blankets and insulated wraps with limited success...

paperairplane · Mar 2, 2015

I bought a cheap camping sleeping pad at walmart - same thing as yoga pad - get whatever's cheaper... I didn't need the whole pad to wrap around the pot, so I used the extra to make a lid insulator. I leave mine on the burner. Wrap pad around, duct tape in place.

NeoBrew · Mar 2, 2015

I use an STC 1000 and a hot plate to control temperature along with a single layer of reflectix insulation around that pot and lid. I brew in my garage which can get down well below freezing in the winter.

Overshooting is still a bit of an issue. I try to time my stirs for when the system is calling for heat. I also turn the hot plate way down to #1 so it is heating very gently.

Gavin C · Mar 2, 2015

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f244/boil-kettle-improvements-biab-pictures-518303/

I use reflectix as an upgrade from my previous ski jacket during the mash

More images in the above thread

hopbrad · Mar 2, 2015

Keep a gallon+ of water that is boiling or near boiling and add some every 15 minutes or so, just remember to take that out of the sparge

wilserbrewer · Mar 2, 2015

-25 degrees?
OMG I think that may be an issue!

EthanH · Mar 2, 2015

A thick towel wrapped tight around the kettle and then 2 thick blankets wrapped loosely around that. It looks ridiculous but it does a pretty good job of keeping the temperature steady.

(There's a kettle under there somewhere, I swear.)

Eamon · Mar 2, 2015

I found a cheap yoga mat on ebay for around 10 bucks shipped. If it is really cold I still slap and old sleeping bag on as well. I have been blessed with really good efficiency on my first 4 BIABS, but I don't necessarily attribute it to insulating my kettle. I think it has as much to do with the extra fine grinding I do to the grain. One other thing (arguably) that might help is I squeeze the daylights out of my grain bag.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/371093033607?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&var=640256524666&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

wilserbrewer · Mar 2, 2015

At minus 25, do you have to thaw the burner flames with a blow torch? Jk, but that is seriously cold....

WI_Wino · Mar 2, 2015

wilserbrewer said:
At minus 25, do you have to thaw the burner flames with a blow torch? Jk, but that is seriously cold....

I think he used a tilde and not a minus sign. So about 25 f, not minus 25 f. Downright balmy if you ask me.

Magnus314 · Mar 3, 2015

Leave it on the burner (with the burner off, of course). The warm burner will help it keep it's temp where the cold ground or cold air will suck the heat out.

wilserbrewer · Mar 3, 2015

WI_Wino said:
I think he used a tilde and not a minus sign. me.

Thanks Wino, it's called a tilde huh, learned something today.....guess it's time to increase my font size again grrrr.

RM-MN · Mar 3, 2015

I find that the easiest way for me to control the mash temperature for an hour is to not mash for an hour. I'm getting the same efficiency and the same FG with a 20 minute mash as I did with a 60 minute mash and at 20 minutes I don't lose enough heat to matter. With the extra fine grind, I'm experimenting with even shorter mashes and while the efficiency hasn't changed, I don't yet know how the FG will be affected. Stay tuned for more info on the short mash when the fermentation of the batches is over.

vNmd · Mar 3, 2015

I use a down filled winter coat. It is too ugly to wear unless it is extremely cold so I use it to wrap my kettle. I put a couple tie straps on it. It usually keeps the temp within 3 degrees / hour when it is very cold.

djonesax · Mar 3, 2015

I use an old thick coleman sleeping bag around the outside and a folded up moving blanket on the top. Works very well but I have melted the sleeping bag a couple times putting it on too soon.

william_shakes_beer · Mar 3, 2015

vNmd said:
I use a down filled winter coat. It is too ugly to wear unless it is extremely cold so I use it to wrap my kettle. I put a couple tie straps on it. It usually keeps the temp within 3 degrees / hour when it is very cold.

That is a seriously disturbing image, especially with the burner visible below.

Reminds me of an old college prank I witnessed once. A friend sat down at a public event with a winter coat, hood up, empty, next to him. As the room filled and before the event began, he started having an "argument" with the coat. The argument became more and more heated, and finally he raised his hands, shouting, and hit the top of the coat, which collapsed completely. The audience gasped, then applauded. Quite a performance.

vNmd · Mar 3, 2015

william_shakes_beer said:
That is a seriously disturbing image, especially with the burner visible below.

Believe me the fire is out and the metal is cool before the coat ever gets near the pot. Good point about safety though.

vm

firerat · Mar 3, 2015

I wrap my in something similar to Reflectix, but it's a bit thicker.

I secure it with bungees.

Psylocide · Mar 3, 2015

Lol... I mash in on the stove currently, so I've been using towels.

5 towels and some rope wrapped around it and it only dropped 22° overnight.

254498d1423277660-hoppy-wheat-overnight-mash-biab-0206052034.jpg

254499d1423277660-hoppy-wheat-overnight-mash-biab-0206052035.jpg

TexasWine · Mar 3, 2015

DoctorMemory said:
Did my second BIAB brew yesterday and wound up missing my OG by several points. I'm pretty sure it's due to the crazy temperature swings I had during the mash. I heated my water up to 160, then added my grain and stirred. When the temp dropped to 155 I pulled the kettle off the burner and put it on a pallet and wrapped it with an old sleeping bag. Fifteen minutes later, the temperature was down to 148. I put the kettle back on the burner, heated it back up to 160, then pulled it off again and put it back on the pallet. By that time it had overshot to 170, so I stirred until I got the temp down to 158, then wrapped the sleeping bag around it again. Fifteen minutes later I was down to 149, so I just pulled the bag and started my boil, figuring I wouldn't get any more conversion.

My kettle's wider than it is tall, which may be contributing to my problem, but if anyone could suggest some way to hold in the heat, I'd really appreciate it. My kettle's a decent Winco 10G SS, so it's not a thin aluminium thing. It was pretty cold yesterday (~25F with freezing rain), but I can't believe it would just cool off that fast with a sleeping bag wrapped around it.

Just guessing here, but I don't think your problem is insulation. If I were to take a stab at, I'd say you're just seeing temperature gradients.

Did you stir before you got your reading of 148F? Were you stirring continuously when you heated back up to 160, only to find you'd really overshot?

eadavis80 · Mar 3, 2015

I think he meant AROUND 25, not 25 below zero. In any event, I've had success putting a thick towel and a heavier blanket on top of that. LAYERS I think are the key to good insulation. If you want to keep warm in the winter, you wear layers - seems like it would be the same principle here.

DoctorMemory · Mar 3, 2015

TexasWine said:
Just guessing here, but I don't think your problem is insulation. If I were to take a stab at, I'd say you're just seeing temperature gradients.

Did you stir before you got your reading of 148F? Were you stirring continuously when you heated back up to 160, only to find you'd really overshot?

That's an interesting point, and something I'll definitely keep in mind for next time. For the record, though, I was using my chef alarm with its waterproof probe, so I just left it in the kettle in the same spot (somewhere in the middle, although I didn't re-check the position after stirring). And you're right, I didn't stir while I was re-heating, I probably should have.

RM-MN · Mar 3, 2015

Something I wonder about, is the saccrification process endothermic? I've noticed a temperature difference between the outside edge of the pot and the middle of the mash with the middle always being a little lower.

ickmund · Mar 4, 2015

Inspired by this thread I decided to get cracking on insulating my smaller pot, 3 gal, last night. I had some styrofoam from an old home-made MT that never worked out, which was enough for about 10 layers. I'd say it's about an inch and a half thick. I put a layer of scotch tape around it all for the simplest of protection, and then duct tape on all corners.

Picture is early, I ended up cutting a fair bit off the bottom, cutting out modular pieces for the handles, and build a 10 layered lid. Ran out of both time and tape thou, so will finish it later this week and hopefully get to test it out with a couple of brews this weekend.

TexasWine · Mar 4, 2015

DoctorMemory said:
That's an interesting point, and something I'll definitely keep in mind for next time. For the record, though, I was using my chef alarm with its waterproof probe, so I just left it in the kettle in the same spot (somewhere in the middle, although I didn't re-check the position after stirring). And you're right, I didn't stir while I was re-heating, I probably should have.

I have the exact same set up. I drop the probe right smack in the middle and leave it there. But I've also seen temp gradients during the mash. When that happens I give everything a good stir and I usually find that no corrective action is needed.

Just something to keep in mind for next time.

Calichusetts · Mar 4, 2015

Honey, the new oven has a temp probe for making sure my...um...food...stays the perfect temperature.

EthanH · Mar 4, 2015

TexasWine said:
Just guessing here, but I don't think your problem is insulation. If I were to take a stab at, I'd say you're just seeing temperature gradients.

Did you stir before you got your reading of 148F? Were you stirring continuously when you heated back up to 160, only to find you'd really overshot?

That's a great point, too. When I do a 60m mash I stir every 20m or so and I generally see an upwards bump of 2-4º.

For example, here are my notes from last night. It was low 60s outside and I only wrapped my kettle in a towel and a single blanket.

* strike water @162º, mash in lowered temp to 156º
* 154º @20m
* 149º @40m, stirred and temp raised to 152º
* 150º @60m, stirred and temp raised to 151º

(As you can tell I'm hardly neurotic about mash temps. I figure if I can keep it w/in 2-4º I'm ok.)

StarrHill · Mar 8, 2015

Here's what I do. I posted about it a few months back:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f244/kettle-insulation-mash-475484/

I think I'm planning to upgrade from that system with a layer of reflectix on the inside, then the closed cell foam mat, then another layer of reflectix. Need to come up with a better adhesive for the straps, too. Hot glue didn't work. 3M makes some spray on plastic adhesives that will probably work great.

Since I'm switching over to induction heating, using an Avantco 3500, I'm planning on keeping the insulation on through the whole brewing process. Haven't done it yet, but I'm counting on faster heating times and easier to maintain a boil with less energy.

Whatever you do, it's important to insulate the lid, where most of the heat is lost.

ickmund · Mar 9, 2015

I made my first brew with the new insulation this weekend, and am very happy. Drilled a hole through the lid and inserted a thermometer and it held perfectly throughout my 30 minute mash. Stirred twice.

jump_xiii · Mar 9, 2015

I use an electric boiler and throw a 4 season sleeping back over it for the mash. The best part is the sleeping bag smells of wort!

How do you insulate your kettle?

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