Lager Advice

Dear All:

Need some advice, new to forum. First time making a lager.

I have brewed a couple IPA batches. One of those came out fantastic, west style IPA. One not so good (horrible). So I have some experience, but not a lot.
I am making a lager as I mentioned above. Here are the basics. Then I’ll explain what the actual question is.

Grains Used:
Bohemian Pilsner 5.64LB
Light Munich .84Lb
Breiss .5 Lb 2-row Carapils
I know these are strange grain amounts. I calculate water needed based on grains for mash and sparging. I did pre soak the grains in water also. About 1.5 gal. For the purpose of the questions I have I left out the details on this as my questions will relate to secondary and racking, etc.

Anyhow…..
Mashed at around 149 to 152. I mash on stove top, and batch sparge. Yield was about 5.5 Gal before boil. Boiled 1 Hr.

Hops Schedule: (this is from memory, it is close but maybe not exact)
Hallertau hops 1 oz. at boil
Saaz hop 0.5 oz. at 20 minutes
Saaz hop 0.5 oz. at 40 minutes
Saaz hop pellets 0.25 oz. at finish
Final wort yield was about 4.75 GAL.

OG was 1.043
Pitched yeast: WLP802

Fermenting at 45-50 degrees. It sits in a spot that stays fairly much in that temp range

Today (I tested and tasted the batch 01/31/15) its been about 4.5 weeks. The SG is about 1.005. The test taste is extremely good. It is somewhat dry, great body, absolutely no wierd flavors. I actually can’t believe how good it came out in such a short time, and that is what confuses me. I thought for a lager this has to go through multiple stages it has only been 4.5 weeks. Everything I have read says making lagers really tough, takes long time to ferment / age…..seams way to short in terms of time.

I now have it sitting at about 40-42 degrees.
What should I do?
Rack it? leave it for another 4 weeks?
Advice please…….

If you're kegging I would go ahead a keg it now and then let it sit for several more weeks at serving temp and then start pulling pints. Bottling, I'm not sure. Hopefully someone with more lager experience than me will chime in.

To play it safe, bring it up to room temp for a diacetyl rest (you could have done this a week or so ago.) After that, package it. If kegging it should go right into cold storage. If bottling, let it condition, then into cold storage (lagering.) A good trick when bottle conditioning is to use one plastic soda bottle to let you know when carbonation has ocurred (drink that first.)

In the future, you should boil for 90 minutes when using that much pilsner malt to prevent DMS formation.

Lagers don't have to take a long time. That's just the traditional way of brewing lagers. Lot's of people are having success with fast lagering methods like the one here: http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/

Brew on

Ok I am going to do the diacetyl rest. Just brought it in to warm spot. I read up on the diacetyl rest process. Bring to room temp (68degrees) for 2 – 3 days? That correct? What’s the test to see if it is ready, or if it made a difference? Is there one?

I was going to let it sit for another two weeks after the rest at 38-40 degrees in the carboy. Then cold crash it. Then bottle it. There is a very off chance I may go get a keg system, but right now it bottles and bottle conditioning.

This ok?

GREAT JOB on producing your first Lager!

If the beer is past primary, a diacetyl rest is fruitless. Diacetyl rest will only clear up diacetyl if it is caught during primary fermentation. If there is diacetyl noticable after primary, it can only be removed temporarily by increasing the temperature. It will return later on during the lagering process. Drink the beer quick if it has diacetyl.

If diacetyl isn't present at this time, don't do the rest. A diacetyl rest is the last ditch attempt to save beer that has failed. If you are prone to brewing beer with diacetyl, the brewing process is poor and needs to be corrected.

When performing a diacetyl rest, the yeast is raised to Ale temps and it kicks into gear, tearing through nutrients and fuel it will have to depend on throughout the lagering phase. Yeast becomes depleted and senile. When a diacetyl rest is performed, spiese and or krausen are added.

Lager doesn't have to take a long time to age when the English method is used to produce the beer. The process doesn't create wort with the backbone to sustain yeast throughout a traditional lagering cycle. Lager was traditionally tri-decoctioned. The method is more suitable for producing Lager and Pils, even when modern malt is used with the method.

RodeBrewingCo said:

Ok I am going to do the diacetyl rest. Just brought it in to warm spot. I read up on the diacetyl rest process. Bring to room temp (68degrees) for 2 – 3 days? That correct? What’s the test to see if it is ready, or if it made a difference? Is there one?

I was going to let it sit for another two weeks after the rest at 38-40 degrees in the carboy. Then cold crash it. Then bottle it. There is a very off chance I may go get a keg system, but right now it bottles and bottle conditioning.

This ok?

Click to expand...

No, there is NO need for a diacteyl rest at this stage (and often not needed at other times). If the beer tastes good, then go ahead and lager at 34 degrees in the keg if you have a keg. At this point, I'd be hesitant to keep aging in a carboy as oxidation is a huge problem, and ruins many good beers. If you don't have a c02 system, bottle the beer and let it carb up at room temperature, and then go ahead and lager in the bottle to protect it from oxidation.

Ok, so it got a 12 hour diacteyl rest. Now it’s in a 38 degree temp, while I decide what to do. I think I’ll let it sit for another 1-2 weeks, then bottle or keg. The short term rest kicked up the yeast so maybe sitting in the carboy it will have a nice CO2 blanket on it (inside). Plus if the rest made it slightly drier, that is ok with me. I like dry beer. I may go ahead and buy a keg so sitting there I would supposed can’t hurt too much while I decide on process.

On the taste the WLP802 worked just perfect for me. The taste test reminds me very much like a Bernard Czech larger. I just had a bottle of Bernard Lager. I am not a lager taste expert by any means. I actually prefer ales. But lagers are a very refreshing beverage when I am Ale’d out.

I highly recommend this yeast (WPL802). So much so I am actually thinking of harvesting and saving the yeast from this batch. Which makes me wonder if the yeast companies (like white labs) have variances in their yeast products some very good and some just ok. IE you end up getting a superior yeast variance. It has to be something other than my brewing technique. As I am just a novice.

I forgot to mention I make a starter for the yeast. I use 1 cup LDME to 2 cups water. Boiled of course. Cooled to correct temp, add the yeast to the starter batch. I keep it on hand for 1-2 days in 68 degrees. In a flask like container, swirl it ever so often, aerate. I am very big believer in starters as I used to do that for all my pizza dough. Gives extra insurance the yeast gets a head start.

well I decided to rack then keg it. Went out and bought few more carboys and a keg system. thanks for the advice to everyone. looks like its lagering just fine. been at 32 degree looking happy. smells great. cant wait to try it as its my first lager, and 5th batch I have made (I am making my 6th batch now). I'll keg carbonate rather than bottle. thanks again.

Congratulations on the first lager. I've been thinking about trying mine recently but just not made the leap.
That's a lot of headspace for secondary; did you purge the top with CO2?

Sounds awesome, good thread, sounds like you got a lot of good advice and it's paid off well for you. Congrats! I really like wlp838 for lagers, fwiw (in case you want to mix it up with future batches).

doug293cz said:

Lagers don't have to take a long time. That's just the traditional way of brewing lagers. Lot's of people are having success with fast lagering methods like the one here: http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/

Brew on

Click to expand...

That maybe the single greatest beer website I have ever visited. The Exbeeriments are fantastic!

Honestly no…. I did not have a CO2 tank at that point. I just got a co2 tank and a keg. It’s in the Keg right now carbonating. I snuck a taste. Little early, under carbed. But it tasted Very Very good. Yes thank you fall or all the good advice. Made the beer that much better