Best malt for sweetening Belgian blond beers

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serum

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I've been doing a lot of research (getting drunk) lately and noticed that the aroma and taste of my Belgian style blond and amber beers is lacking a bit of sweetness compare to the commercial ones I've been trying. I tend to either end up with a very dry beer or something that has more of a grainy malt taste rather than the honey or boiled sweet taste the commercials have. The most recent ones I've had are Bink Blond & Tripel and the Caracole range.

What malts do you guys think are best to achieve this? Unfortunately I can't get honey malt which would present itself as the obvious choice. There seem to be a lot of options so it'd be good to know what's been tried and tested.

Crystal malts seem like a good choice but am I better off using more of a lighter colour or less of a darker one to achieve the colour and sweetness?

Other options seem to be melanoidin, caramunich, carapils, caravienna or carabelge
 
serum said:
I've been doing a lot of research (getting drunk) lately and noticed that the aroma and taste of my Belgian style blond and amber beers is lacking a bit of sweetness compare to the commercial ones I've been trying. I tend to either end up with a very dry beer or something that has more of a grainy malt taste rather than the honey or boiled sweet taste the commercials have. The most recent ones I've had are Bink Blond & Tripel and the Caracole range.

What malts do you guys think are best to achieve this? Unfortunately I can't get honey malt which would present itself as the obvious choice. There seem to be a lot of options so it'd be good to know what's been tried and tested.

Crystal malts seem like a good choice but am I better off using more of a lighter colour or less of a darker one to achieve the colour and sweetness?

Other options seem to be melanoidin, caramunich, carapils, caravienna or carabelge
Click to expand...

I followed this over from the Yeast and Fermentation Forum. While you may be able to get this sweetness from certain grains, I have been working on bringing out the sweetness with higher alcohols. As you may know this can be a challenge as higher alcohols are often hot and solventy. A couple of tips: Yeast strain, 20 percent sugar (cane or beet) and cooler fermentation temps. For yeast strain, my favorite is an isolate I got from DuPont's Moinette Blond which is not (to my knowledge) commercially available. However, I have also had good result with my isolate from Westvleteren Blond which is available as wlp530 / wyeast 3787. For fermentation temperature, try pitching ~60F let it rise naturally to 65F then, after high krausen, bump the temp by 2 degrees per day until you hit 70 - 72.
 
I find that the Danstar Belle Saison dry yeast leaves behind a certain sweetness I don't get with other Saison strains even when fermented at temperatures of 72-74F and even in beers with FG under 1.005.
 
TopherM said:
Why not just mash a little higher to create some complex sugars to sweeten the final beer?
Click to expand...


This. It doesn't take much, either - just two degrees or so and you'll have a noticeably sweeter final product.
 
carapils won;t give you sweetness, just body and head retention

melanoidin is like the (better) German version of Victory malt. Not really sweetness but malty breadyness

out of what you've got i'd recommend caravienna. I use 1lb in a 5gal wheat beer recipe as the only specialty malt and it comes out very nice and sweet but still crisp and clean

If you can find it, I love adding like 1/4lb of honey malt to get a more rounded sweetness. I used some and golden naked oats in my last blond and it turned out well.

or as others said, mash at like 154 or something.
 
What yeast are you using? Yeast esters have a lot to do with perceived sweetness in Belgian beers.
 
Yooper said:
What kind of base malt are you using? Using a Belgian pilsner malt really makes a huge difference. I like Castle pilsner malt.
Click to expand...

Dingemans is also pretty nice (I loved the saison I made with it recently.)
 
I used 2# of Simplicity Candi Syrup in a belgian one time and the residuals left a nice sweet flavor.
 
Munich can give some nice subtle malty sweetness, as can just using a ton of pilsner malt and simple sugar.

Honey malt, despite its name, isn't really sweet, and doesn't really taste anything like honey. It's sort of hard to describe, but it adds a nice complexity to certain pale beers.
 
Thanks for all the replies, they've given me some things to think about.

I'm using Dingemans Pilsner in pretty much all my beers so I'll try mashing higher.

For yeast I've mixed it up quite a bit and used cultures from Duvel and La Chouffe and my last one used WLP530 and some Munich so I'll see how that turns out.

I've got fruity sweet notes from the Chouffe and Duvel but not quite the honey flavour I was after.

In Brew Like A Monk it says Kerkom and Caracole use wood fired kettles that caramelise some of the sugars so I might see if I can get something like that with a longer boil or maybe some caramelised sugar syrup
 
serum said:
Thanks for all the replies, they've given me some things to think about.

I'm using Dingemans Pilsner in pretty much all my beers so I'll try mashing higher.

For yeast I've mixed it up quite a bit and used cultures from Duvel and La Chouffe and my last one used WLP530 and some Munich so I'll see how that turns out.

I've got fruity sweet notes from the Chouffe and Duvel but not quite the honey flavour I was after.

In Brew Like A Monk it says Kerkom and Caracole use wood fired kettles that caramelise some of the sugars so I might see if I can get something like that with a longer boil or maybe some caramelised sugar syrup
Click to expand...

Try fermenting in the low 80s for a fruitier sweeter beer. Start in mid 60s though.

Also just FYI, use a blowoff with wlp530. Seriously
 
Omg, yes, blowoff for sure with 530.

I've made some really nice belgian singles with 500 - you get a nice fruitiness even in the 60s and 70s, but it doesn't blow off. Takes forever to clear, though.
 
serum said:
Thanks for all the replies, they've given me some things to think about.

I'm using Dingemans Pilsner in pretty much all my beers so I'll try mashing higher.

For yeast I've mixed it up quite a bit and used cultures from Duvel and La Chouffe and my last one used WLP530 and some Munich so I'll see how that turns out.

I've got fruity sweet notes from the Chouffe and Duvel but not quite the honey flavour I was after.

In Brew Like A Monk it says Kerkom and Caracole use wood fired kettles that caramelise some of the sugars so I might see if I can get something like that with a longer boil or maybe some caramelised sugar syrup
Click to expand...


I used about 8 0z of Honey malt in a Saison that turned out to add just a little bit of sweetness.
 

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