getting very discouraged with this hobby, pls help...

Hi all, as the title says, I'm in a slump and need some pro guidance here. I've been brewing for a year and half and for the last 4 batches, trying to make a good IPA. I just got my score sheet back from a local competition and the 2 judges said it was hop astringent and "hot" from alcohol and has an upfront sweetness. there was also a comment on my water as too mineral and chalky.

I'm trying to figure out why my IPAs are suffering and could use your help. I really thought this one would turn out great. Here's a rundown of my partial mash recipe and process.

5lb.......2 row
8oz.......Carapils
5oz.......crystal 20
1lb.......dextrose (added at flameout)
4lb.......xtra light DME (added at flameout)

.5oz columbus @60
.5oz simcoe @15
1oz columbus @10
1 columbus @5
1oz simcoe @5
1oz simcoe @0
1oz columbus @0
.5oz chinook @0

1oz simcoe DH 10 days
1oz columbus DH 10 days
.5oz chinook DH 10 days

1oz cent DH 3 days
1oz simcoe DH 3 days
.5oz chinook DH 3 days

made a 2 liter yeast starter of wyeast 1056 and decanted.
used 3 gal tap water (water is good according to people on the forum here), and added 3 gal spring water and added 1/8 campden tablet and 2 tsp Gypsum, 1/2 tsp calc chloride and 1/4 tsp non iodized salt. 6 gallons is the max I can handle in my kettle.

BIAB method-mashed 8.6qts (5.75 lb grain) @ 152º for 60 min. Dunk sparged with 8qts for 10 mins at 170º.

pitched yeast under 70º (used wort chiller)

temp controlled fridge set at 65º (probe bubble wrapped to bucket).

Kept in primary for 2 weeks and then dry hopped (no secondary) for a total of 10 days. OG taken @ 65º was 1.072. FG was 1.012. 3.5 oz corn sugar boiled for priming at bottling time (probably should have done 4 oz).

Any constructive feedback welcome. Thanks in advance!

Pelican521 said:

Hi all, as the title says, I'm in a slump and need some pro guidance here. I've been brewing for a year and half and for the last 4 batches, trying to make a good IPA. I just got my score sheet back from a local competition and the 2 judges said it was hop astringent and "hot" from alcohol and has an upfront sweetness. there was also a comment on my water as too mineral and chalky.

I'm trying to figure out why my IPAs are suffering and could use your help. I really thought this one would turn out great. Here's a rundown of my partial mash recipe and process.

5lb.......2 row
8oz.......Carapils
5oz.......crystal 20
1lb.......dextrose (added at flameout)
4lb.......xtra light DME (added at flameout)

.5oz columbus @60
.5oz simcoe @15
1oz columbus @10
1 columbus @5
1oz simcoe @5
1oz simcoe @0
1oz columbus @0
.5oz chinook @0

1oz simcoe DH 10 days
1oz columbus DH 10 days
.5oz chinook DH 10 days

1oz cent DH 3 days
1oz simcoe DH 3 days
.5oz chinook DH 3 days

made a 2 liter yeast starter of wyeast 1056 and decanted.
used 3 gal tap water (water is good according to people on the forum here), and added 3 gal spring water and added 1/8 campden tablet and 2 tsp Gypsum, 1/2 tsp calc chloride and 1/4 tsp non iodized salt. 6 gallons is the max I can handle in my kettle.

BIAB method-mashed 8.6qts (5.75 lb grain) @ 152º for 60 min. Dunk sparged with 8qts for 10 mins at 170º.

pitched yeast under 70º (used wort chiller)

temp controlled fridge set at 65º (probe bubble wrapped to bucket).

Kept in primary for 2 weeks and then dry hopped (no secondary) for a total of 10 days. OG taken @ 65º was 1.072. FG was 1.012. 3.5 oz corn sugar boiled for priming at bottling time (probably should have done 4 oz).

Any constructive feedback welcome. Thanks in advance!

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HI, for one, do not get frustrated. I can tell from the process you've outlined, that you are absolutely close to nailing brewing! Thank you for detailing your question here as well!

Lets start with the spring water... what is your purpose for adding spring water and then salts on top of that? Also, can you give me your water profile?

Yeah you look like you are on the right track but might have a couple things getting a little crazy. I don't really get the water being good and then adding spring water. If you want a big IPA maybe just stick with adding some gypsum, then again would really like to see your water profile. What were the IBUs?

If it were me I would try dumping all the salts, the sugar in the recipe, and try all spring water.

I haven't entered any of my beers in a contest so I don't know how the would fare critically, but I like them a lot.


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Another question - your profile says you're in CT: what town, and are you on city water or well? I'm in Terryville, and we're lucky to have great city water for brewing. It's fantastic for stouts, and does a pretty admirable job at every other style I've tackled, without having to introduce any water additions. I've toyed with the idea of tossing in a little gypsum to enhance hoppiness in IPA's, but without getting a full water report, I'm hesitant to try to modify my water makeup.

Depending on just how good the water actually is, maybe the water additions are actually introducing more minerals than you actually need? Do you have a water report that you're working from, in order to figure out the correct amount of salts and such to add?

Also, don't get down because of the comments from one competition. I'm a judge, I support the BJCP and competitions, but would never put too much weight on the feedback from a single competition. Too many variables.

Are you overcrushing your grains? While debatable this is according to many sources a possible way to extract tannins and get an astringent off flavor.

Is your thermometer properly calibrated? Sparging with water that is to hot can cause astringency.

Water: I would suggest giving RO water a try and build from there. It is a pretty simple way to eliminate water as a problem. Unless you have a water report from the spring water you are using who knows what is in there. Often Spring water will have all sorts of minerals in it. Many companies adjust the mineral profile of spring water as well.

How long was it in bottles? Seems like something that went from 1.072 to 1.012 should have a couple months to mellow out.

Same questions as other people - why spring water and tap water?

I would also drop the dextrose. Only need that if you want to thin the mouthfeel and up the ABV. Probably added to some of the perceived heat, too.

Don't get down on a single judge not liking your beer. A local brewery (Boulevard) did a wort transformation contest. I had one judge say that my beer tasted like a dish rag yet gave me a 24/50 (which is an average beer). The next judge sampling from the VERY SAME BOTTLE gave me a 42/50 saying I nailed the style (saison).

Opinions are like @ssholes, everyone has one.

With that said....out of curiosity, why are you adding so much at flame out? That's a whole lot of extract that may or may not completely go through a hot break.

Have you considered first wort hopping? That's a lot of additions at various times. Finally, like others have said, if your water is fine why the extras? Just curious if anything. In the end if you like the taste of your beer that's all that matters.

I am total novice when it comes to brewing beer but have been making wines and ciders and meads for a few years, so treat my questions for what you think they're worth: what do YOU think of your IPA? What is it about your brew that YOU think is out of whack? If YOU enjoy your beer AND if you were to taste your own beer blind so that you did not know it was your own you would give it a thumbs up as fully meeting what anyone would hope an IPA would look and taste then I am not sure that you need to take those judges seriously.

If YOU don't think your beer is good enough that is a different story, but what I might do then would be to search out my local brew club and ask folk there to taste the beer and share their thoughts...

The only important thing is do you like the beer?

I'm sure my beer has flavor flaws but it tastes great to me and most people that try it seem genuinely surprised that it tasted good. I guess most of my friends don't expect homebrew to be as good as brewery beer...

Marc77 said:

Opinions are like @ssholes, everyone has one.

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This +1

Do you like the beer? Do you agree with the judges' comments? Not all judges know what they're talking about, and the format of competitios and score sheets tends to focus more on seeking out technical flaws than on the overall beer. Fixing these flaws may lead to a better beer, but if you like the beer and the judges don't, then I'd quit wasting my money by giving them free beer.

I don't know what your tap water is like, and "good for beer" is vague and kind of useless, as great water for one style would be lousy for another. Water reports help, but a lot of water companies change their water source seasonally. Using RO water (the machines that charge 25c/gal) with salts, and controlling your mash pH will help with the chalkiness and astringency.

It doesn't look like you should have any hot flavors, but if you do, there's a few steps you can take. A lot of brewers will chill to a few degrees below their ferment temp and then pitch, and let the beer slowly warm. You could drop the ferment temp a few degrees for the first 2-3 days. You could wait until fermentation slows to add the dextrose.

If he has this comment from two separate judges, I wouldn't blame him for wanting to explore it. I'd really like to hear his water profile, but especially why he's using spring water.

The most obvious thing I see, and I'm surprised only one person mentioned it before me, is the dextrose. If it's too alcoholy drop the dextrose. The only thing the dextrose does is up the alcohol. Drop that and you've solved 1 problem and saved yourself some work and money.

Seems like the same with the minerals and salts. If they say it's too mineraly then drop the minerals. Also, I've only used gypsum once or twice but 2tsp seems like a lot.

Either way, everyone above is right when they say the only person you have to please with your beer is you. Unless you plan on brewing competitively and making a profit from competitions you should brew whatever makes you happy. If you like your beer with a lot of alcohol and mineral tastes (which is a perfectly legit desire) then brew that.

One final note on the alcohol. If it's too hot now just cellar it for a while (like a year or more) and that can subside. I have a coffee stout that was almost undrinkably hot and a year later it's quite tasty. It'll still put you on your ass but it's tasty.

Cellaring a hoppy IPA pretty much defeats the purpose of making such an IPA. You'll lose all the lovely fresh hoppiness if you do that. Provided you have a good healthy pitch of yeast and ferment at the proper temperature, you shouldn't need to age a 1.072 IPA.

I have an IPA that I gave to 4 of my coworkers, all of whom have good palates and I trust their recommendations. 3 of them drank it that weekend and said it was as good as any commercial IPA, another let it sit on his desk for a week, and said it was so-so.

cernst151 said:

The most obvious thing I see, and I'm surprised only one person mentioned it before me, is the dextrose. If it's too alcoholy drop the dextrose. The only thing the dextrose does is up the alcohol. Drop that and you've solved 1 problem and saved yourself some work and money.

Seems like the same with the minerals and salts. If they say it's too mineraly then drop the minerals. Also, I've only used gypsum once or twice but 2tsp seems like a lot.

Either way, everyone above is right when they say the only person you have to please with your beer is you. Unless you plan on brewing competitively and making a profit from competitions you should brew whatever makes you happy. If you like your beer with a lot of alcohol and mineral tastes (which is a perfectly legit desire) then brew that.

One final note on the alcohol. If it's too hot now just cellar it for a while (like a year or more) and that can subside. I have a coffee stout that was almost undrinkably hot and a year later it's quite tasty. It'll still put you on your ass but it's tasty.

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I'm not sure less than 1% ABV boost would cause a hot alcohol flavor... and Dextrose is not uncommon in IPA recipes. However... he does mention that he leaves it 3+ weeks in primary while dry hopping. Yeast being left too long in trub CAN cause fusel alcohols- or too much yeast as well.

I wouldn't drop minerals or do anything water related until I hear more about the spring water. Spring water is, as Forest Gump would approve, like a box of chocolates; you never know what you're going to get. That would be my starting point.

With regard to cellaring.... that might be fine for your stout, but this is an IPA he's talking about. The hop aroma and flavor will fade LONG before that. In fact, these are beers best to drink ASAP to some extent. Besides, cellaring his beer for a year isn't going to fix the process that he thinks might be broken.

I would be interested to see your water profile as well. Seems like a lot of salts are being added. With my water I only use a touch of a few salts (very rarely over half tsp) to fit the style of beer I want to brew and a touch of acid to bring down the PH if I need to. As long as the water report seems okay, I would try brewing the same beer without the salts (or very few depending on the water) and only using tap water. That or use RO water and add the appropriate salts.

On the alcohol, cut the dextrose down or eliminate it. If you still want the high alcohol, bump up the grain or DME a bit to compensate. Personally I have never had an issue with using that percentage of dextrose, but who knows?

I'd skip the water additions until you know EXACTLY what you're starting with as far as water composition. Without knowing what you have, how do you know that your additions are doing what you think they are?

Once you get your water figured out, the rest will fall together.

Astringent and chalky + good water cut 50% with spring water, and quite a bit of gypsum.

It's your brewing liquor. "Is good according to people on this site" is a bit too vague. You got a thread to point us too?

If it's good, why cut and then add salts back in? You're just introducing two more chances for errors, and I think that's where your results are coming from based on the info provided.

barnaclebob said:

The only important thing is do you like the beer?

I'm sure my beer has flavor flaws but it tastes great to me and most people that try it seem genuinely surprised that it tasted good. I guess most of my friends don't expect homebrew to be as good as brewery beer...

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Leaving the judges and judging out of this, because we really cannot comment on what they tasted, the bottom line is 'do you like drinking what you are brewing?'

I brew a number of recipes that don't quite fit neatly into style, but I enjoy them and I have a number of friends who will take these beers over many well known commercial beers.

Take the score sheets and the beer you submitted and sit down with both. Read through the score sheets section by section and evaluate the beer for each section at the same time. Can you see, smell, taste what the judges are describing? If not, take the comments for what they are and move on.

Remember also, that they are sampling a number of beers during a sitting, and yours may have been far into the session. Palate fatigue is hard to overcome late into a tasting session.

Pay attention to a lot of the other comments in this thread also, because if you decide that the judges are on to something, there is a lot of good advice above on how to fix it.

Recipe looks pretty solid, here are a couple ideas:

* Increase crystal malts to 8oz C60 or C40.
* Remove sugar and replace w/ DMR or 2-row, this will give you more malt flavor and a more balance beer.
* Maybe simplify the hop schedule.

The original malt bill is similar to what I use for a Belgian tripel or Belgian Strong Ale where you want a light color and dry finish.

I agree with a lot of the feedback here. But you might not learn much if you follow every suggestion at once. If you are patient, change one thing at a time. I would start with the liquor, and maybe just use tap, or otherwise greatly simplify it. See if that helps.

After trying that, I would try in order: Boiling DME for a few minutes, remove the carapils which can mess up sweetness(not a fan, I think it is a crutch for wrong mash temps). I would leave the sugar.

Also, you sound like you might agree with the judges, but do you? If you can see what they taste, then you can try and fix it. But if you don't taste it, that it is hard to correct, and they might be full of it. If they both said the same thing, they were likely talking to each other, and may have had groupthink.

First off, thanks for all the responses and well wishes!

It took a while to go through all the posts but here are some responses...

I do think something is not right with my IPAs I brew but I find it hard to distinguish what it is. This is actually the main reason why I entered the contest. I knew I wasn't going to win but I wanted to know how to make my beer better.

I have city water and was able to find a helpful person at my water company to email me the water profile for my street address, here are the numbers:

Calcium - 12.8
Mag - 2.9
Sodium - 17.6
Chloride - 22.9
Sulfate - 18.8
Hardness - 43.9
Alkalinity - 16

I've played around with the EZ water calculator and came up with some water additions and didn't like the results. Then I cut back the additions and didn't like the results either. I've gone back and forth a few times and then for this recipe I thought maybe I would cut my city water with spring water and that would be the "magic" solve I was looking for. It seems like all my IPAs taste the same to me no matter what different hops i use.

I made this recipe but with more DME for a higher alc % and that's why I have the LB of dextrose in, to dry it out. After I brewed this I thought to myself, I should have left it out. I personally don't really taste the hotness from the alcohol or anything boozy. This recipe is 74 IBUs.

Ok, so I'm drinking one now and I can honestly say the judges are correct. I think I was suffering from "ugly baby" syndrome and just wanted to like it cause I made it, but knew in the back of my mind it had some off flavors.

It is bitter, with an upfront sweetness and is hot. I just needed someone to tell me what I'm tasting because it's hard for me to distinguish the off flavors.

What do you think of my water profile in my previous post?

Could my 10 minute dunk sparge be causing the astringency? What I do is dunk the grain bag a few times, let it sit for 10 minutes and during that time, give it a dunk once in a while.

Another major issue I've had with my IPAs is they are nice and straw colored at the time I transfer to my secondary and by the time I bottle, it's turned to almost and amber color. Thinking it was oxidation from racking, I decided to forgo the secondary for this batch. I think it helped a bit in keeping the intended color, but not the overall taste.

I hear people saying how there beer is just as good or better than commercial beers but mine isn't even close.

Join a homebrew club. You can get lots of feedback and talk to your peers, some maybe judges, some maybe long time home brewers. Tons of experience there.

Pelican521 said:

used 3 gal tap water (water is good according to people on the forum here), and added 3 gal spring water and added 1/8 campden tablet and 2 tsp Gypsum, 1/2 tsp calc chloride and 1/4 tsp non iodized salt.

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Pelican521 said:

It is bitter, with an upfront sweetness and is hot. I just needed someone to tell me what I'm tasting because it's hard for me to distinguish the off flavors.

What do you think of my water profile in my previous post?

Could my 10 minute dunk sparge be causing the astringency? What I do is dunk the grain bag a few times, let it sit for 10 minutes and during that time, give it a dunk once in a while.

Another major issue I've had with my IPAs is they are nice and straw colored at the time I transfer to my secondary and by the time I bottle, it's turned to almost and amber color. Thinking it was oxidation from racking, I decided to forgo the secondary for this batch. I think it helped a bit in keeping the intended color, but not the overall taste.

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Lots of points here, so I'll try to take them one by one.

First, let's talk about the color change. That is almost always due to oxidation, so I think you pegged that.

The taste, however, seems to be due to water chemistry issues. The water profile you posted, if accurate, seems fine. But I have no idea what is in 'spring water' so that could be an issue. Does your water supplier add chlorine, especially in the way of chloromines? That would be something that needs fixing right away.

Lastly, if the beer tastes 'minerally'- that is almost always due to too many minerals in the brewing water. Have you ever brewed this beer with your own tap water, or 100% distilled or RO (reverse osmosis) water? 2 teaspoons of gypsum (10 grams) can be alot. What is the cacl2 and NaCl2 added for? If you don't know, don't add it!

"Hot" is tough if the beer never got above 65 degrees. Was that also the pitching temperature?

Re: commercial beers:
Years ago, I think that was an easy statement. But IPAs have become so competitive, with so much late hop flavor, that commercial examples are hard (not impossible) to beat. Source of hops, freshness of hops, whirlpool techniques, and oxygen pickup control are critical variables in making a great IPA nowadays.

Having grown up in Pliney's backyard, where I could get fresh bottles, I don't think I can make a better beer. But I can get really close, and a 5 gallon keg for $45, rather than $8/22 oz.

Some folks might disagree, but at least the best commercial versions are not going to be easy to beat.

Use more hops @60 min. 1oz or more.

Brew beer that tastes good to you, Don't worry about judges until you are brewing something you like to drink.

J187 said:

. Yeast being left too long in trub CAN cause fusel alcohols- or too much yeast as well..

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Old wife's tale in home brewing. I've left beer in the fermenter at 63* for over 6 weeks with no sign of fusel alcohols

He dry hopped for 1o days not 3 weeks.

I'd ferment for 3 week min and then dry hop like a week.

I'm starting to scratch the surface of understanding water for brewing myself, but I'd look at the salts first, and then the mash ph. With the calcium chloride and salt, you're adding more chloride which is offsetting some of the effect of the sulfates in the gypsum (which are supposed to enhance the hoppy goodness). This may be throwing off the flavor a bit. (You can test this by pouring a good commercial IPA and putting in a touch of salt - it kinda ruins it.)

Secondly, the astringency may be due to a high mash ph, which can be addressed by diluting with distilled water, salt additions and/or acid additions. Since you have the water profile (I think I saw it in the posts above), you can plug those into brewing software or Palmer's spreadsheet on howtobrew.com to get in the right direction.

Worst case, go with some Poland Spring - they post a fairly comprehensive water report on their website. This could be a good starting point for building a water profile if your local source doesn't provide much info. If you go that route, you will need to add something with calcium to get up to at least 50 ppm (gypsum and calcium chloride work here), otherwise your fermentation will suffer.

Agree with all the advice thus far.
Like mentioned, change one thing at a time to better pinpoint the cause(s).

I would focus ONLY on the water profile at this point. Plug your base profile into a good calculator ( I like Bru'n water)
Have you ever brewed a batch of that same IPA using plain old tap water?
Yooper adds a good thought with the chlorine / chloramine issue.
The addition of all those salts could definitely give a mineral taste as well, thats a fair amount of sodium in there.


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Did you expect to be winning beer contests after only 1.5 years of brewing?

By the time guys get drafted into pro football, they've already been playing at the competitive level for 8-10 years.

So, seriously, just get back to brewing and stop worrying about the judges at this early point in your experience.

Pelican521 said:

Ok, so I'm drinking one now and I can honestly say the judges are correct. I think I was suffering from "ugly baby" syndrome and just wanted to like it cause I made it, but knew in the back of my mind it had some off flavors.

It is bitter, with an upfront sweetness and is hot. I just needed someone to tell me what I'm tasting because it's hard for me to distinguish the off flavors.

What do you think of my water profile in my previous post?

Could my 10 minute dunk sparge be causing the astringency? What I do is dunk the grain bag a few times, let it sit for 10 minutes and during that time, give it a dunk once in a while.

Another major issue I've had with my IPAs is they are nice and straw colored at the time I transfer to my secondary and by the time I bottle, it's turned to almost and amber color. Thinking it was oxidation from racking, I decided to forgo the secondary for this batch. I think it helped a bit in keeping the intended color, but not the overall taste.

I hear people saying how there beer is just as good or better than commercial beers but mine isn't even close.

Click to expand...

Hey Pelican good on you admitting the judges were onto something. IPA is a super competitive category on the homebrew comp and on the commercial bottle shop wall. Last competition I was in there were like 60 IPAs and vs maybe 6 in most of the lager categories. Those lager brewers took home a bunch of ribbons! I digress.

I am also struggling with the style with some coming out great (got a second place BOS in an early batch) and some not (working on second keg of a 10 gal batch now that came out way too sweet).

I think you got lots of good suggestions in here much of it conflicting. My thoughts relate mostly to the sweetness and minerals. I really dont know what they mean by hop astringency...
Sweetness...
...get rid of the carapils
...keep the sugar
...mash the 2-row at 149 for 90 min
I think you get plenty of unfermentable sugars from extract as they are manufactured with lower gravity beers (which need higher unfermentables to get body).

On the minerals your additions sound ok if you were using all tap water. Your water looks pretty similar to mine and those additions don't sound crazy to me. The calcium chloride might be related to the sweetness but the addition is modest. The table salt is probably not needed. You should probably be adding the minerals to the mash right? With your very light grain bill it could be helpful for controlling pH which might be related to the astringency.

I am not sure what to say about the hotness. I am guessing a fermentation issue. Seems you did everything right there in terms of using good yeast, making a starter, controlling temperature, etc. Perhaps oxygen. Perhaps your temp control is not as good as you think. With the sugar and the starter the fermentation might have taken off pretty fast and spiked the temperature without you noticing.

Thanks for sharing and keep brewing!

Pelican521 said:

Ok, so I'm drinking one now and I can honestly say the judges are correct. I think I was suffering from "ugly baby" syndrome and just wanted to like it cause I made it, but knew in the back of my mind it had some off flavors.

It is bitter, with an upfront sweetness and is hot. I just needed someone to tell me what I'm tasting because it's hard for me to distinguish the off flavors.

What do you think of my water profile in my previous post?

Could my 10 minute dunk sparge be causing the astringency? What I do is dunk the grain bag a few times, let it sit for 10 minutes and during that time, give it a dunk once in a while.

Another major issue I've had with my IPAs is they are nice and straw colored at the time I transfer to my secondary and by the time I bottle, it's turned to almost and amber color. Thinking it was oxidation from racking, I decided to forgo the secondary for this batch. I think it helped a bit in keeping the intended color, but not the overall taste.

I hear people saying how there beer is just as good or better than commercial beers but mine isn't even close.

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First of all, I'm glad you are finding the judges perspective helpful. It's nice that you are objective enough to realize the flaws yourself.

I would definitely get away from the spring water personally... you don't know what kind of minerals and ions are in there. For that matter, it's my understanding that even if you were to find a report, it can vary quite a bit. Stick with constants. Your water with your water report and do any cutting you need or want to do with DI or RO water - and realize you are cutting everything in the water. I would rebrew the recipe and try absolutely minimum water adjustments - adjust to get your PH within range, and try to keep all ion levels low. Pay close attention to anywhere you might be oxidizing during transfers. I supposed the oxidation could also be causing the astringency.

Did you treat your sparge water with salts? The PH of your sparge water could have played a big factor here since you dunk sparged separately from the mash water.

I'd really try to limit the changes to start. I would definitely start by simplifying water profile. Focus on your PH during mash, that would definitely cause astringency if that were too high.

Well, grains and hops look fine, and after 1.5 years I'm assuming you know how to properly use your equipment. This leaves water as the only thing that seems like it might be a problem.

Does your tap water have chloramine in it? If not, stop using campden tabs. Just collect what you need for the brewday from the tap the day before and leave it out overnight.

Have you made this beer without adding salts before? If your tap water is good, then just use that and tweak accordingly, but make sure you understand WHY you're adding what salt or spring water or whatever. I think you might be doing more harm than good with the spring water and salts and campden. Simplify, and then tweak. That's what I'd do.

podz said:

Did you expect to be winning beer contests after only 1.5 years of brewing?

By the time guys get drafted into pro football, they've already been playing at the competitive level for 8-10 years.

So, seriously, just get back to brewing and stop worrying about the judges at this early point in your experience.

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WTF?

You can't get drafted in to pro football until you've already had that experience by default simply due to age restrictions. This is a terrible analogy.

This is like saying if you get in to racing RC cars, don't expect to win a race until you've been doing it for 8 years. Ridiculous.

We're brewing beer, not throwing touchdown passes at Soldier Field.

Again, thanks for taking the time for your posts. I should have mentioned that the spring water I used was Poland Spring (sorry).

And yes, I am unhappy with my beer, and is why I'm seeking help. I could care less of what a couple of judges say, especially if I was happy with it. With the amount of time I've spent reading and researching and all the books I've read along with my brewing practices, I thought I would be making half-way decent beer.

According to the public water profile post of my water company, there is chlorine & chloromines in it but I read the Campden tablet would remove it?

Looking back at my notes on the IPA I did just before this batch with the grain bill pretty much identical (just more DME) I used all tap water and water additions very similar to the current one. I collected 6 gallons and added 1.75 tsp Gypsum, 1/4 tsp Calc Chloride, and 1/2 tsp epsom salt and 1/8 campden tablet and used it for both my mash and sparging (not too far off from my water additions for this batch).

I used the EZ water calculator and tried to match an IPA profile I found online. With my additions to my tap water here are the numbers that it came out with:


Calcium - 101
Mag - 13
Sodium - 18
Chloride - 55
Sulfate - 235

It also calculated a mash ph of 5.52.

My process is pretty dialed in so all the brewing numbers were pretty much identical to this current brew, as I always have a 5.75 LB grain bill. When I say brewing numbers I mean mash temp/sparge amounts and temps/ pitching temps under 70° as well as temp control on my ferm chamber.

Even though it's not the same IPA as this batch (almost identical, just more DME for a higher alc%), it pretty much tastes identical which I'm thinking it the same astringent off flavors which give a "muddy-earthy" taste even though they had quite different hop bills.

I know a lot of focus is looking at my water profile but is there anything in my brewing process that might be off. I mentioned this earlier but could it be my sparging? I sparge at 169° so I don't think it's too hot.

Not sure how to handle the oxidation issue either as I don't keg and don't have access to anything to purge CO2 with. That's why for this batch I thought I'd skip the secondary for the first time to try and keep it to a minimum.

Any other ideas? I'm at a loss...

podz said:

Did you expect to be winning beer contests after only 1.5 years of brewing?

By the time guys get drafted into pro football, they've already been playing at the competitive level for 8-10 years.

So, seriously, just get back to brewing and stop worrying about the judges at this early point in your experience.

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paulster2626 said:

WTF?

You can't get drafted in to pro football until you've already had that experience by default simply due to age restrictions. This is a terrible analogy.

This is like saying if you get in to racing RC cars, don't expect to win a race until you've been doing it for 8 years. Ridiculous.

We're brewing beer, not throwing touchdown passes at Soldier Field.

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Quite. There are new brewers on here that have brewed more batches in 1.5 years or taken brewing more seriously than most brewers ever do.