Oktoberfest slow fermentation

I started a batch of Oktoberfest from a Brewer's Best kit last Sunday and as of this morning (Thursday) it still hasn't taken off yet.

Here is a link to their instructions if interested: http://www.brewersbestkits.com/pdf/1028 German Octoberfest.pdf

I pitched the yeast around 60F and had the Fermentation chamber set to 59F. After 48 hours (Tuesday evening) of no activity I bumped it up to 66F. Wednesday after work I noticed a very thin layer of foam and the airlock trap has been pushed up to the top by gas, but no bubbles.

I'm not to the freaking out stage yet, but I am wondering if there is anything I can do to give it a kickstart? It says to ferment between 53-59F, so I don't want to keep up in the upper 60's for too long. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

You sure its not done? Hydrometer readings?

freisste said:

You sure its not done? Hydrometer readings?

Click to expand...

+1. Any little leak can let the CO2 escape from somewhere other than through the airlock. Get a gravity reading. If it's fermenting. letting it go on at 66*F isn't going to produce the clean lager character you're looking for.

Did you pitch the dry yeast (S-23?) included in the kit or opt for a liquid yeast? If you used liquid, did you do a big enough starter? As a general rule of thumb, lagers need twice the cell count of comparable ales.

freisste said:

You sure its not done? Hydrometer readings?

Click to expand...

Well...no, I am not sure as I have not taken a sample. I suppose it is possible, but I have kept a pretty close eye on it so that blow-off gunk didn't get all over the bottom of my fermentation chamber. I haven't really seen any activity from it at all to lead me to believe it's done much of anything. I have not even seen so much as the first bubble of CO2 make it past the airlock, just the plastic center piece pushed to the top and a very thin layer of foam.

I'll take a reading tonight just to be on the safe side, though.

BigFloyd said:

+1. Any little leak can let the CO2 escape from somewhere other than through the airlock. Get a gravity reading. If it's fermenting. letting it go on at 66*F isn't going to produce the clean lager character you're looking for.

Did you pitch the dry yeast (S-23?) included in the kit or opt for a liquid yeast? If you used liquid, did you do a big enough starter? As a general rule of thumb, lagers need twice the cell count of comparable ales.

Click to expand...

I just used the dry yeast pack that came with it. I was worried about raising the temps up like that, but from all my previous searches it seemed like that was what folks were doing to give the yeast the nudge they needed.

If it is, in fact, done fermenting...do you think I will have screwed up the flavors letting it sit in the primary so high?

Don't worry about air lock activity. That is not a sign of fermentation. Take a gravity reading and if it has decreased from the OG then you have fermentation. You can also tell that fermentation is taking place if you have krausen on top of your wort.

There was almost no krausen. Only a very thin layer of it about 1 bubble thick taking up approx. 30% of the surface.

Hastein said:

There was almost no krausen. Only a very thin layer of it about 1 bubble thick taking up approx. 30% of the surface.

Click to expand...

That may just be the end of it. Plus, lagers are bottom fermenting, so I don't think the krausen gets as thick... Not sure though.

I rarely see any airlock activity anymore when I brew but fermentation is going on. For my Oktoberfest I had a very small krausen as well. I actually fermented at a very low temp 48-50 and was able to knock it out... the first lagering was too low...in fact had a thin layer of ice on top... its about to be bottled after over 4 weeks in the cold. Looking forward to trying it out.

Also don't forget about the D-test and raising the temp for a few days if it is done fermenting.

sok454 said:

I rarely see any airlock activity anymore when I brew but fermentation is going on. For my Oktoberfest I had a very small krausen as well. I actually fermented at a very low temp 48-50 and was able to knock it out... the first lagering was too low...in fact had a thin layer of ice on top... its about to be bottled after over 4 weeks in the cold. Looking forward to trying it out.

Also don't forget about the D-test and raising the temp for a few days if it is done fermenting.

Click to expand...

Do you think I will have off flavors if it actually fermented in the 60's instead of 50's?

Also, forgive me for my noobness, but what is a D-Test?

The instructions say that when its done fermenting to transfer to a secondary and slowly drop the temp over the course of 3-4 weeks until its in the 30s. I actually was hoping for this brew to be the first one I keg.

What kind of yeast was in the satchet? That did the satchet say on it?

Typically kit Oktoberfests are packaged with ale yeasts because new brewers are impatient, and fermenting an actual lager takes a lot more time. But from the instructions, it looks like maybe it actually is a lager yeast since the recommended fermentation temp is a bit low for your typical ale...although I'd consider high 50's much too high for lagers, personally.

If it was a lager yeast, then you woefully underpitched if you only used one satchet. A brand new 11g satchet only contains about 200 billion viable yeast cells. This satchet may have been new and straight from cold storage, or it may have been sitting in the summer heat for a month before you got it. Unless you wrote down the date on the package, we don't know. In any case, 200 billion cells is enough for your typical ~1.050 ale, but it's not nearly enough for the same gravity lager. You really ought to have pitched twice as much yeast.


Second, lagers take a lot longer to ferment than ales, and they don't typically look the same when they ferment, either. So, you should not freak out if you don't see a ton of activity after a few days. Especially if you underpitched, a lot of that lag time is going to be occupied by the yeast growing enough cells to appropriately ferment.

Third, you should not have raised the temp up to 66F, but now you are sort of caught in a rough spot. If you want, you can try to very gradually lower it back down to the 50's over a 3-4 days. The downside is that there is potential to stall the fermentation if you lower it too quickly. The upside is that lagers handle cooler temperatures more gracefully than ale yeasts do (for the most part), albeit more slowly.

Finally, you should be using a hydrometer to check what is actually going on.

A D-Rest stands for Diacetyl Rest.


This is frequently performed when fermenting lagers, because lager yeasts fermented at cooler temperatures tend to produce diacetyl during fermentation, but then don't clean it up very well. Raising the fermentation temperature for a few days up to ale fermentation range (i.e. 68F) at the end of primary helps the yeast to do that clean up and get rid of the diacetyl. Once the beer tastes clean of diacetyl, the temp is slowly lowered down to lagering range.

You are fermenting warm enough that there isn't too much danger of lingering diacetyl after primary. However, it doesn't hurt to taste the beer in a couple of weeks and make a decision at that point.

I think it is an Ale yeast, but all I remember about the packaging was that it said Brewferm on it. If you look at these instructions:http://www.brewersbestkits.com/pdf/1028 German Octoberfest.pdf, on the second page, middle right...there is a box with instruction on how to brew it as an Ale.

I was originally wanting to brew this as a lager, but do you guys think at this point I should follow through with brewing this as an ale instead?

I am actually right on point for their suggested temp to brew as an ale.

Well, the hydrometer shows that it hasn't done anything. It's still at the OG. I think I may just go ahead and ferment it as an ale.

Should I just wait it out and let the yeasties reproduce or would it be better to buy another packet and add it in?

On a side note...I tasted the hydro sample. It is very tasty. Not really like Oktoberfests that I have had in the past, though.

For my Okt I used 2 packs of lager yeast hydrated and got it down fairly quick to fg. I can't remember if u said but do u have a fermentation chamber?

That particular kit comes with a lager yeast.

What I would do is buy a packet of Saflager S-23 and Saflager W-34/70, I would hydrate them, you can follow the manufacturers instructions on re-hydrating them by clicking here: click me.

I always heat half a cup of water to 80° and sprinkle the yeast into the cup, i'll gently stir the yeast in making sure that it doesn't clump up, after 5-10 minutes you will see it starting to form what looks like a cream on top, at this point I take an equal amount of the wort and add it to the cup so the yeast have a source of food, this will keep them happy and multiplying, exactly what we want, when the yeast looks like the yeast in the picture below, I pitch it into the fermenting bucket with the cooled wort.

The fermentation process can take up to a few weeks at lager temps.
I'm currently fermenting an Oktoberfest (all grain) as we speak.

Good job on identifying that it wasn't fermenting, but always take a starting gravity reading.

I hope that this helps you.
Tom
.
.
.

Funny you mention both yeasts. That is exactly what I did for my Okt. Used 2 different ones and had good fermentation. Haven't tasted it since the d-rest so I'm interested to see what it tastes like now.
A buddy gave me a taste of his Okt that he knew j

Had a lot of diacetyland you could really taste the have butter flavor.

Last night I bumped it down a few degrees and wrote down the yeast to pick up from the HB store today. When I woke up this morning the airlock was bubbling away. So, at this point, I think you guys were right about 1 sachet not being enough yeast. It looks like it just took a while for the yeast to get to a number where proper fermentation could take place.

I bumped it down a few more degrees before I left and I think I may just see what happens over the weekend. I'll take another sample Sunday night and if there is no significant change I will pick up the suggested yeasts and give that a try.

Oh, sok for your question: Yes I do have a fermentation chamber that I made from a small chest freezer and a Ranco temp controller. It is pretty handy to have since it gets 100+ regularly here in TX!

I know that my first post should be in the noob section and I also realize that the last post on this thread was in Aug of 2013. But I started my first batch of Oktoberfest on Saturday 1 MAR 14 and today Wednesday 5 MAR 14 (and after a transfer to a carboy because my gravity reading hadn't change) @ 0150 I checked my wort and it is finally fermenting! I am not set up to brew a lager and I didn't realize when I purchase the Brewer's Best kit that it was a lager and I needed special refrigerating, so I decided to follow the instructions for an ale. I just wanted to let people know that if you are in the same boat that I am, I strong feel that this will take longer to start the fermentation and get to the specific gravity that you are trying to achieve. I am extremely excited to see that my wort is finally starting to become beer! Good luck to all. I am not a pro by any means but I am willing to help out anyone with any questions. I will help you to the best of my knowledge (which is extremely limited compared to everyone else on this site!) Sorry for the thread jack ...