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Old 08-13-2013, 05:05 PM   #1
terrapinj
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Default Pediococcus timeline question

Does anyone know of any resources or can share some experience with Pedio timelimes when fermenting?

Is there any sort of predictability with when it will get ropey etc?

I just racked my Flanders red to secondary which spent 3 months in primary with Roeselare, JP La Roja Dregs and Consectration dregs.

The beer was surprisingly very tasty and drinkable with a nice medium sourness and a little background complexity.

I saved a jar of the yeast/bugs for future use but thought about doing a simple pale sour with a quick turnaround. I've done a sour mash BW and know that is the most common option for a quick turnaround sour beer but the sample I tasted last night had a bit more complexity and depth albeit no where near the levels of a properly aged sour.

I'd like to try a batch of pale sour and see if it's as enjoyable in 3months or so but not sure if I just got lucky with the pedio not being sick and not getting a glass full of diacetyl.


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Old 08-13-2013, 08:27 PM   #2
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Pedio doesn't always get ropey. I'm pretty sure it always throws diacetyl. I think how long the diacetyl takes to get cleaned up is largely dependant on the temperature and what brett(s) you've got and in what amounts.

I wouldn't plan on packaging a beer with pedio in any less than 6 months and probably more like 9-12 as a minimum.


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Old 08-13-2013, 09:20 PM   #3
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Pedio doesn't always get ropey. I'm pretty sure it always throws diacetyl. I think how long the diacetyl takes to get cleaned up is largely dependant on the temperature and what brett(s) you've got and in what amounts.

I wouldn't plan on packaging a beer with pedio in any less than 6 months and probably more like 9-12 as a minimum.
even if it tastes clean at the time? still very new to sour/brett brewing so I appreciate the help.

I'd be kegging so I assume the cold temps would stop any brett/bugs from further activity.
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:49 PM   #4
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My guess would be that it the pedio hasn't really gotten going and that what you're tasting is from lactobacillus, but that's just a guess and perhaps a less then educated one.

If it tastes good, drink it.
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:02 PM   #5
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Far as resources go, pick up a copy of Wild Brews, listen to podcasts with Jean Van Roy, Vinnie Cilurzo, and Chad Yakobson (though his are more brett focused), read The Mad Fermentationist and Embrace the Funk blogs, etc.

It doesn't always happen. As I recall, Cantillon and Russian River's sour beers get "sick" whereas Drie Fonteinen's do not for whatever reason (concentration, strain, fermentation profile, various unexplained phenomena of the universe). It's likely to become ropey during the summer when it warms up and again when sugar is added at bottling. It's not a problem other than as a practical matter for bottling and textural preference when serving. Pedio is typically in lower concentration than lacto, has a longer fermentation, and can survive lower pH (~3.4 or less) than lacto.

I'm not sure I answered your question(s). Does that help?
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:15 PM   #6
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Far as resources go, pick up a copy of Wild Brews, listen to podcasts with Jean Van Roy, Vinnie Cilurzo, and Chad Yakobson (though his are more brett focused), read The Mad Fermentationist and Embrace the Funk blogs, etc.

It doesn't always happen. As I recall, Cantillon and Russian River's sour beers get "sick" whereas Drie Fonteinen's do not for whatever reason (concentration, strain, fermentation profile, various unexplained phenomena of the universe). It's likely to become ropey during the summer when it warms up and again when sugar is added at bottling. It's not a problem other than as a practical matter for bottling and textural preference when serving. Pedio is typically in lower concentration than lacto, has a longer fermentation, and can survive lower pH (~3.4 or less) than lacto.

I'm not sure I answered your question(s). Does that help?
I figured it was unpredictable, Wild Brews is part of my next order from amazon, I've been listening to the BN podcast with Chad in prep of a 100% Brett B Trois IPA but def will check out the other suggestions. Thank you.

I wasn't sure if pedio had been very active yet or if it was mostly the lacto - the current Flanders Red is sour but i am hoping it get's more sour over the next year but i'd be happy with this flavor profile for a quicker turnaround sour beer plus I'd expect using the yeast/bugs again will sour more/a little faster in subsequent generations.
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Old 08-13-2013, 11:00 PM   #7
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I've been listening to the BN podcast with Chad in prep of a 100% Brett B Trois IPA
There's also a presentation on youtube where he covers some additional info.

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I wasn't sure if pedio had been very active yet or if it was mostly the lacto
Yeah I think of the early stages as being more lacto but it's probably contributed somewhat.

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Originally Posted by terrapinj View Post
the current Flanders Red is sour but i am hoping it get's more sour over the next year but i'd be happy with this flavor profile for a quicker turnaround sour beer plus I'd expect using the yeast/bugs again will sour more/a little faster in subsequent generations.
Yup, I'd expect it to become more sour over the next year, and that subsequent pitches will result in a beer that sours more quickly.


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