Is mash out really essential? - Home Brew Forums
Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > Is mash out really essential?
Cool Brewing Giveaway - Supporting Membership Drive & Discount

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-08-2012, 04:58 PM   #1
gkeusch
Recipes 
 
Nov 2007
Posts: 143
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts



I'm trying to get my head around the neccessity of a mash-out step given my level of sophistication and the fact that all I ever brew are ales. I understand the purpose of the mash-out is to stop the enzymatic activity, but it doesn't seem to me that I have enough control over the mash to matter. I infusion mash in an insulated box. I manage the mash temp between 148 and 153 and can't see how I would get any better control than that. I mash for 45 minutes to an hour then fly sparge. I thought I was always going for maximum efficiency/full conversion. Do I still need to worry about the mash-out?



 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 05:02 PM   #2
brycelarson
Recipes 
 
Jul 2012
Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 529
Liked 55 Times on 49 Posts


Mash out serves a couple of purposes. It both inhibits enzymatic activity AND thins the wort making it flow better. It's just like any other sugar solution (honey, syrups etc) the warmer it is the better it flows.



 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 05:21 PM   #3
brettwasbtd
Awesomeness Award Winnner
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
brettwasbtd's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Apr 2010
Damascus, MD
Posts: 1,787
Liked 159 Times on 115 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by gkeusch View Post
I'm trying to get my head around the neccessity of a mash-out step given my level of sophistication and the fact that all I ever brew are ales. I understand the purpose of the mash-out is to stop the enzymatic activity, but it doesn't seem to me that I have enough control over the mash to matter. I infusion mash in an insulated box. I manage the mash temp between 148 and 153 and can't see how I would get any better control than that. I mash for 45 minutes to an hour then fly sparge. I thought I was always going for maximum efficiency/full conversion. Do I still need to worry about the mash-out?
A mash out will allow you to increase your consistency in brewing by stopping the enzymatic activity at 60 mins or whenever you perform it. That being said, as you mentioned your consistency varies greatly in the mash itself. What does this "insulated box" look like, do you preheat it? You shouldn't be loosing 5 degrees over 45 mins.

That being said, I don't mash out. I do fire up my kettle once I start collecting first runnings to stop the enzymatic activity. Just speeds things up for me. If you aren't bringing the grain up to temp for a mashout and then are fly sparging for an hour with water that isn't bringing it up, you potential have enzymatic active for close to 2 hours?

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 06:30 PM   #4
gkeusch
Recipes 
 
Nov 2007
Posts: 143
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts


The box is just a carboard box with styrofoam insulation fit inside that my mash/lauter tun (stn. stl. pot) fits in. I guess I don't really loose 5 deg., but my stike temp isn't always right on the money, either, so I may start at 153 or 150 depending on my luck. I use 180 deg. water for sparging, and it usually takes less than one half hour to get it all drained.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 09:15 PM   #5
Shmrak12
Recipes 
 
Oct 2012
Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 31


A mash-out is not necessary, especially when brewing almost ales exclusively at home. When brewing Ale there will be more than a sufficient amount of water per pound of grain present (~1.5qt/lb), making the grain bed loose and allowing for good flow. However, when there is a high amount of oats or wheat present in the mash, a mash-out could be beneficial to improve the flow during lautering/sparging.

Instead of a mash-out, towards the end of the mash, I Vorlauf (gently recirculate) the first runnings of sweet wort back into the mash tun to set the grain bed that will act as my filter. I repeat this action till the runnings are mostly clear and free of particles. Then I begin to lauter into my boil kettle while fly sparging from my HLT. Try to match the flow of sparge water entering the mash tun, to the flow of wort leaving the mash tun, and shoot for a sparge time around 45 min to make sure you are being as efficient as possible. Lautering too quickly will result in decreased efficiency, stuck sparge, and lower OG.

I fly sparge with water at 168 degrees F. This allows for final conversion of sugars, which increases yield. I would NOT sparge above 170 degrees F. As the temperature increases above 170 F, so does the solubility of Tannins (undesired) in husk material, which will increase astringency and other off-flavors in your beer.

And my final note, start your boil kettle when you believe you are about 1/2 or 2/3 the way done with sparging. That way when you finish the sparge , you will be near boiling and already denatured the enzymes present during mashing.

CHEERS

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 04:18 AM   #6
kylevester
Recipes 
 
Apr 2012
Lafayette, IN
Posts: 226
Liked 15 Times on 12 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shmrak12 View Post
I fly sparge with water at 168 degrees F. This allows for final conversion of sugars, which increases yield. I would NOT sparge above 170 degrees F. As the temperature increases above 170 F, so does the solubility of Tannins (undesired) in husk material, which will increase astringency and other off-flavors in your beer.
Only if your pH is too high as well. So long you treat your water to proper pH, you're good. But you don't really need to be much higher than 168. I have to heat my sparge water up to 180 to 190 as I lose a lot of heat while pouring and increasing the bed temp.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 05:22 AM   #7
amandabab
Recipes 
 
Mar 2012
spokane, wa
Posts: 1,971
Liked 240 Times on 183 Posts


I batch sparge, so my sparge water addition is my mashout.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 05:32 AM   #8
Frodo
Recipes 
 
Nov 2009
Reno, NV
Posts: 1,033
Liked 28 Times on 27 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by gkeusch View Post
I'm trying to get my head around the neccessity of a mash-out step given my level of sophistication and the fact that all I ever brew are ales. I understand the purpose of the mash-out is to stop the enzymatic activity, but it doesn't seem to me that I have enough control over the mash to matter. I infusion mash in an insulated box. I manage the mash temp between 148 and 153 and can't see how I would get any better control than that. I mash for 45 minutes to an hour then fly sparge. I thought I was always going for maximum efficiency/full conversion. Do I still need to worry about the mash-out?
I personally currently prefer, with my system (10 gal cooler MLT, fly sparge), to skip the mash out step, and instead use that volume of water that I'd use to get to mashout temp as part of the sparge volume. I just don't see the benefits of the mash out step. "stopping enzymatic activity" just doesn't seem to be enough of a reason to do a mash out.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 05:43 AM   #9
AZ_IPA
PKU
HBT_MODERATOR.png
 
AZ_IPA's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jun 2008
The Cold Part of AZ
Posts: 51,299
Liked 8247 Times on 6709 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by amandabab View Post
I batch sparge, so my sparge water addition is my mashout.
Even on your first runnings?

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 05:58 AM   #10
amandabab
Recipes 
 
Mar 2012
spokane, wa
Posts: 1,971
Liked 240 Times on 183 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_IPA View Post
Even on your first runnings?
no, but I drain pretty fast, settling and vorlauf on the sparge is maybe 10 minutes.

the 1st runnings in the kettle might have some activity before I light the burner , but i don't care much



 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Keeping Mash temp during 90min Mash in 5gal Cooler MLT KYB All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 13 01-30-2013 05:57 AM
Chart of mash temps and water/grain mash ratio by style kellzey All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 8 08-15-2012 02:47 AM
How essential is covering the bottom of a keggle mashtun kanzimonson All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 11 03-23-2011 12:15 PM
Mash in Keggle - False Bottom vs. amount of mash water Griffsta All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 2 03-24-2009 01:09 PM
partial mash.OG,break material,mash tun efficiancy questions dzlater All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 9 07-07-2008 12:15 AM


Forum Jump