Beer gas to dispense ales?

mspace · Jan 24, 2012

I am building a keg setup in one half of my kitchen fridge. I understand that in order to dispense a stout through a stout tap I would need beer gas set at about 38psi. I can only fit one gas canister and two kegs in my fridge and I want to keep an ale and a stout on tap at the same time. So here are two questions:

1-Can I dispense the ale with beer gas at 12psi (second regulator) or will I loose carbonation?

2-Is there a stout tap that would allow me to dispense stout with the great creamy head with co2 at 12 psi?

Thanks,
-Space

david_42 · Jan 24, 2012

1. No and yes

2. Check out creamer faucets.

mspace · Jan 24, 2012

david_42 said:
2. Check out creamer faucets.

What about a flow control faucet on the ale with beer gas at 38psi? I sure would love to be able to dispense both an ale and a stout with the same gas! Looking at the creamer faucets in the mean time

-Space

zazbnf · Jan 24, 2012

If you can squeeze in a paintball co2 tank and regulator into the fridge for the ale, that might be another option.

erikpete18 · Jan 24, 2012

You could also calculate the length of line that you'd need to serve the ale at 38 psi and just coil it on top of the keg. That way it would stay at the proper carbonation, and not shoot out of the faucet. I don't have the formulas in front of me, but some people will use beergas to serve out of normal faucets if they have a long distance to travel, and the beer doesn't care if that distance is straight or around in circles until it comes out the tap. All you'd have to spend was enough to get a longer beer line.

user 4295 · Jan 24, 2012

erikpete18 said:
You could also calculate the length of line that you'd need to serve the ale at 38 psi and just coil it on top of the keg. That way it would stay at the proper carbonation, and not shoot out of the faucet. I don't have the formulas in front of me, but some people will use beergas to serve out of normal faucets if they have a long distance to travel, and the beer doesn't care if that distance is straight or around in circles until it comes out the tap. All you'd have to spend was enough to get a longer beer line.

Just for a point of reference, I use 35' of 3/16" thick walled beverage tubing, coiled up in the back, to serve my root beer carbonated at 30 psi and get a perfect pour.

Bsquared · Jan 25, 2012

Problem with beer gas is it is a mixture of Nitrogen and CO2, so if you store the beer for a ny length of time the much of the CO2 in the beer will be be replaced by nitrogen and the beer will end up flat over time.

mspace · Jan 25, 2012

Bsquared said:
Problem with beer gas is it is a mixture of Nitrogen and CO2, so if you store the beer for a ny length of time the much of the CO2 in the beer will be be replaced by nitrogen and the beer will end up flat over time.

Would that not apply to the stout as well tho? I thought the reason for the high PSI was the lower volume of CO2 in the beer gas. Very confused!

-Space

Bsquared · Jan 25, 2012

The way I understand it, from hearing Ray Daniels speek about it the past two NCH's. Beer gas was frist introduced by Guinness to bars in the US as a way to dispence their stout draught using nitrogen. So yes this is what you want if you want to dispense a stout like a Guinness draught pour you would get at a bar. If you want some thing to be carbonated, you must use ONLY CO2, if you want some thing to be Nitrogen charged, you will use beer gas. It can also be used to dispence ales where a High pressure is needed ie long runs. But for long term storage of your beer under pressure with beer gas, eventually your beer in your keg is going to reach an equilibrium with the beer gas and have more N2 than CO2 in it.

CO2 and N2 are completely different animals chemically, and have very different solubility rates at different temps and pressure. As I remember beer gas is 75% N2 and 25%CO2. If you want to use just beer gas you wold need to invest in a Gas blender.

Check this article from MicroMatic It should help you out a lot. They also have a ton of great information in their web site about beer dispensing.

Mixed gas in a cylinder with a ratio of 25% CO2 / 75% N is appropriate for stout beers but when applied to ales and lagers, allows the beer to go flat because the partial pressure of CO2 is too low. Gas suppliers have difficulties raising the ratio of CO 2 in the mix as this gas eventually liquefies under high pressure in the cylinder. This mix in a cylinder is expensive, and the ratios of CO 2 and Nitrogen can be very inconsistent and the amount of gas contained in the cylinder is low. The internal pressure of mixed gas cylinders is also considerably higher than a cylinder containing only CO2, thus increasing the potential risk of an accident.

zazbnf · Jan 25, 2012

mspace said:
Would that not apply to the stout as well tho? I thought the reason for the high PSI was the lower volume of CO2 in the beer gas. Very confused!

-Space

The problem is that beergas is mixed to maintain stout at a carbonation level of about 1.2 volumes. If you serve an ale at a co2 volume of 1.2 most people would consider it very flat. There are other mixes of beergas besides the more commonly known 75%N2/25%CO2 for instance my gas blender can also supply 60%CO2/40%N2 for long beer line runs. However most places wouldn't carry the other blends as a premixed gas.

Theoretically you could run 2 regulators on the beergas 1 at 38 psi for the stout, and the other at a much higher pressure(65-70psi?) to maintain a higher carbonation level on the ale. Then you could run a really really long line for the ale to balance it.

mspace · Jan 26, 2012

Bsquared said:
Check this article from MicroMatic It should help you out a lot. They also have a ton of great information in their web site about beer dispensing.

Thanks for the link! that's some great information.
-Space

mspace · Jan 26, 2012

zazbnf said:
The problem is that beergas is mixed to maintain stout at a carbonation level of about 1.2 volumes. If you serve an ale at a co2 volume of 1.2 most people would consider it very flat. There are other mixes of beergas besides the more commonly known 75%N2/25%CO2 for instance my gas blender can also supply 60%CO2/40%N2 for long beer line runs. However most places wouldn't carry the other blends as a premixed gas.

Theoretically you could run 2 regulators on the beergas 1 at 38 psi for the stout, and the other at a much higher pressure(65-70psi?) to maintain a higher carbonation level on the ale. Then you could run a really really long line for the ale to balance it.

That makes sense. I will have to try to fit a paintball canister in the fridge and go with two separate batches.

-Space

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