Where do I go from here?

I've done 4 batches of beer now. Three from malt extract kits, and one that was simply a wort kit(That was WAAYY to easy). I'm just not sure what the next logical step is in becoming a better home-brewer. I want to take a little more control over my product, but not so much that I'm over my head. All the kits I can find are simply extract kits, so(as you know) all I have to do is mix the extract with sanitary water and pitch the yeast(simplified, but basically that's it). These kits even stress they don't want the wort to be boiled, then cooled before pitching. Just boil enough water to help dissolve the extract.

Really, I want to get past this Kindergarten and Grade 1 crap. Sure, it make decent beer, but I don't want to have my hand held forever. No guts, no glory, right? Gotta start somewhere.

Any guidance is greatly appreciated!

Are you willing to go all grain?

I would think adding specialty grains and picking your own ingredients would be the next step.

Specialty grains are a real easy addition. The easiest way to use them is to crack them (most brew shops have a grinder you can use) then put them in a grain bag. When you put your water on to boil drop the bag in and let it steep like a giant tea bag. When the water hits boil pull the bag out and discard (cleaning out and keeping the bag of course). From there it is boiling, hopping and pitching as usual.

Do you have a local brew store close by?
Did you get a "starter kit" or get your equipment piece meal?

If you go the steeping route, do not leave them in until boiling. Remove them once to hit around 165 or at least by the time you hit 170. Going above 170 can extract unwanted tannins. My advice for some who seems adventurous, dive in head first blind folded. ALl Grain is not hard. The first you do it, you'll think... Really? That was it?

TomSD said:

I would think adding specialty grains and picking your own ingredients would be the next step.

Specialty grains are a real easy addition. The easiest way to use them is to crack them (most brew shops have a grinder you can use) then put them in a grain bag. When you put your water on to boil drop the bag in and let it steep like a giant tea bag. When the water hits boil pull the bag out and discard (cleaning out and keeping the bag of course). From there it is boiling, hopping and pitching as usual.

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This would imply finding a kit that requires boiling of the wort, correct? And as previously mentioned, my past kits were very simple, even pre-hopped, so that alone would be an extra thing to do.

Do you have a local brew store close by?

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Many, I guess I just gotta start looking around and seeing who is the best for beer, as my near-by one is mainly wines. Hence the basic kits.

Did you get a "starter kit" or get your equipment piece meal?

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I must say those last 3 words have me stumped. I got a starter kit, which included, but obviously not limited to; plastic primary, glass secondary, airlocks, stoppers, racking cane, bottle filler(you know, the rigid tube with the push down valve in the tip), capper, bottle rinser, and most other odds and ends.

NPaulson said:

Are you willing to go all grain?

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It depends on how hard it is. I'd like to build up, but I'm also the same guy who undertakes performance engine builds without any prior re-build experience.

IrregularPulse said:

If you go the steeping route, do not leave them in until boiling. Remove them once to hit around 165 or at least by the time you hit 170. Going above 170 can extract unwanted tannins. My advice for some who seems adventurous, dive in head first blind folded. ALl Grain is not hard. The first you do it, you'll think... Really? That was it?

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+1 for All grain. Seriously, I am fermenting my sixth batch and only the first two were extract. I like the more control and variety I have to choose from with all grain. If you have the means, this is the way to go.

machinist09 said:

This would imply finding a kit that requires boiling of the wort, correct? And as previously mentioned, my past kits were very simple, even pre-hopped, so that alone would be an extra thing to do.

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Yeah, sorry about that I've never used a kit that basic and assumed there was at least some boiling involved.

machinist09 said:

I must say those last 3 words have me stumped. I got a starter kit, which included, but obviously not limited to; plastic primary, glass secondary, airlocks, stoppers, racking cane, bottle filler(you know, the rigid tube with the push down valve in the tip), capper, bottle rinser, and most other odds and ends.

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There are brewing starter kits that include pretty much everything you need to brew your first batch of beer (boiling the wort, hopping, pitching, etc). The one I first brewed with (and still use most of it now) had literally everything except five gallons of water and a spoon, lol. Sounds like how you started out includes most of what you need but there will be some things you'll want to add to your collection.

As for all grain vs extract brewing that is something the all grainers will have to cover for you. I'll probably do it eventually but extract brewing provides me with all the challenge and variety I want right now without the added equipment and work, lol.

One thing I would suggest is go to your local brew shop and find The Complete Joy of Homebrewing by Charles Papazian... pretty sure it is in its third edition now (that is the one I have). It will cover everything from one end to the other and give a lot of great advice. It makes for a good reference tool too. Obviously it is nothing you can't learn crawling the web long enough but it really is worth the purchase if you are just starting out.

If you haven't done steeping grains or your own hop additions, I'd say do that.

I haven't moved up to all grain yet, so what do I know? But, I find getting the hops and steeping grains right to be a bit of a challenge, so maybe you will too, and I figure that by throwing yourself in too deep all at one, you're likely to get confused with too many new variables and the near infinite range of outcomes all at once.

Try steeping some grains and picking your own ingredients. 6 lbs extract and maybe 2 oz of hops. Try dry hopping or adding some lemon zest or vanilla bean. Get a liquid yeast and try making a starter with some DME " dry malt extract". Or get a partial mash kit.

Yeah, you could partial mash on the stove, or there was a thread somewhere on these forums on how to do all-grain on your stovetop, I think the guy used a couple of big paint strainer bags filled with grains for mashing.

Or get your large-sized picnic cooler out of the garage and modify it for all-grain mashing, then boil off your wort on your propane burner from your deep-fried turkey kit (might be able to get one of these on clearance after Thanksgiving/Christmas, keep your eyes open).

+10 to all grain.

I started brewing extract kits (easy), because it was winter and it was faster, mostly because it was faster. I started developing my own extract recipes too. I made the jump to all grain after 1 year. I converted my extract recipes to AG using Beersmith and the AG beer is a "cleaner" tasting beer, yes I have made some mistakes. I converted my 48 quart extra insulated cooler to a Mash tun. I still use it for camping, but soak it in StarSan prior to brewing.

I wasn't concerned about AG being harder, just more equipment to store in the shed, I all ready have a Harley in there and all my tools and beer stuff. I did take the leap and made some room.

From what I have read on the forum from new brewers, as I once was, is that there is a risk that many are not ready to take. My advise take the risk and you will iron out the the errors along the way. Beer making is not rocket science, it has been done for many 100's of years in some very unsanitary conditions.

As far as the beer the brew no one has said that is tasted terrible, all though a brother-in-law from Tennessee said the Heather beer I made tasted similar to bong water.

I took baby steps when I started. After simple Brewer's Best kits which had hops and steeping grains, I started buying recipe kits from austinhomebrew.com. I don't know what you have available in Canada, but a good way to start feeling more comfortable with brewing is to an extract kit with steeping grains from a place like austinhomebrew.com, northernbrewer.com or brewmasterswarehouse.com. They have fresh extract, steeping grains, hops, and a solid recipe and great instructions in their kits. I did about 8 or 10 of those, and then started using recipes I found here on the forum. Once you get all the techniques down, you will be very comfortable with any style of brewing and can go to partial mashing, or even all grain.

I probably wouldn't make the jump to all grain yet if I was in your shoes. Some things, like boiling and hops additions can make a huge improvement in your beer and will cost nothing at this point. Once you're confident with all of those techniques, then I'd recommend moving into more challenging techniques.

I would focus on fermentation before complicating wort production. Make starters, get a fermenting fridge, and use a temperature controller. Harvest and repitch yeast. The cold side is where beer really is made.

To make better wort, do full boils and chill quickly. Know your water profile and how to correct it. Get and use a pH meter or strips. Brew with all grain. It's easy; malt wants to become beer.

Use kegs. They won't necessarily improve your beer, but they enable you to brew a lot more and the practice will.

I started brewing last week and I've already done 2 batches that are fermenting now. First one was an extract kit that used steeped grains and wasn't pre-hopped. The second one I used BeerSmith to adapt an extract recipe I found on the internet, tweaked it just a bit to my liking. I have no idea how it will turn out, but the guys at my brew shop said it looked like a good recipe. Now I've worked up about 4 different recipes I want to try. It seems to me that there's still a lot of challenge left for me in extract brewing, but I also think I want to at least try a partial mash at some point so I can use a larger variety of grains. I want to do an oatmeal stout at some point.

Lots of info and suggestions here. Thanks guys. The new guy at work is apparently into home-made booze(as a general term), and told me of a (supposedly) really good store not far off my path home from work. I think I'll stop in there and see what kind of stuff is available. As I said, my neighborhood store has limited kits.

944play said:

The cold side is where beer really is made.

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I do know that I'm more of an ale guy, and I've been schooled in the higher-temperature practice for ales. I'd love to try a lager, but I can't get the temperature cold enough in the apartment, and have no place(nor the money) for a fridge solely for that purpose(someday though...)

If I were you, I'd buy a turkey fryer setup and do steeping grains (Partial Mash maybe) and full boils. This is where you boil the whole volume of wort. That way you get experience with full boils and all that is involved.

You may want to also build an Immersion Chiller at that point.

Then, after say 2 batches, you can jump into All Grain. AG is NOT hard to do. You'll need to build a mash tun, and have your grains crushed. You will want a good thermometer and hydrometer. The process is not that hard to understand and pretty simple to actually do. Once you get past the mash and sparge, you are right back to what you were doing before AG: Boiling wort.

Read www.howtobrew.com for more insight on the different methods of brewing. And I highly recommend buying the book, or Papazian's Joy of Homebrewing. Both are very useful. And as always, we are here and eager to help. Well, except for me. I have to go out back and help now. Break time is over...

By "cold side," I was referring to the fermentation, aging, and packaging of the beer (rather than wort production/brewhouse ops/"hot side"), not to a preference for lager type beer.

Making wort is easy. Managing yeast is less easy.

When I started I did 3 all extract batches. Then I added steeping grains, which are really easy to use and only requires the addition of a mesh grain bag. The grains soak for ~30 minutes , in your boiling pot, at 160-165F then you take them out and let them drain into the pot. Then boil your wort and start your hop additions. It's very basic, but gives you more control over your flavor. Next I bought a small 3 gallon water cooler and used my grain bag and began partial mashes. A small amount of grain (4-5 lbs in a 3 gal cooler placed in the grain bag) mashed at whatever temp you decide then you add extract to make up the difference to reach your target gravity. Boil and adds hops, like you did with your extract with grains.

If this is where you feel most comfortable you can stop with this and turn out really good beer. You'll be able to make a larger variety of styles of beer than with extract alone. You can add whatever kind of hops you want, whenever you want. That's really the beauty of making your own. You aren't required to do anything a particular way. I recently took leftover grains and hops from when I was doing partial mashes and make a sort of Frankenbeer. Turned out to be one of my favorite beers to date.

If you want the ultimate in control then all grain is the way to go, but you're probably going to make a significant investment in gear to get yourself to that point. I just moved up to all grain after a year and I am looking into doing full wort boils by purchasing a large pot and a burner, electric stove and 5 gallon pot just are going to cut it for that.

While you are learning the ropes with extracts and grains you are going to perfect fermentation temperature control. Know where the colder areas are in your house and set up a swamp cooler to help get the fermentation to the temp you need it. Last year I did 2 lagers over the winter. I fermented in my laundry room by turning off the heat and cracking a window open. It got the room into the low 50's so I just added frozen bottle to a swamp cooler to get it down to 50. Then I put it out in the garage where it was in the 30's. Worked out nicely, but if the weather doesn't cooperate you just have to adapt.

944play said:

By "cold side," I was referring to the fermentation, aging, and packaging of the beer (rather than wort production/brewhouse ops/"hot side"), not to a preference for lager type beer.

Making wort is easy. Managing yeast is less easy.

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My bad. I guess that was an over-my-head thing.

For me it's not a question of "if" but "when" I go to all grain. As soon as I can get the extra hardware and figure out a good method of attack to do apartment all grain I will be there.

Until then I'm going to be committed to mini mash style brewing.