New Setup Idea

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StoutFan

StoutFan

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I had this idea today:
NewSetup.gif

How would this work out to your eyes. I want to be able to use gravity instead of pumps to more the wort from setp to step. How could I get the burner AND tun/kettle to move up and down and still be stable. I would want the chiller to move with the kettle as a unit. Any thoughts?
 
I'd love to see something like that. Maybe a hand winch (like from a boat trailer) with a pivoting arm to be able to grab either keg to lift it to the desired height.

I don't see why this wouldn't work.

*EDIT* Though you'd have to batch sparge because you'd be lifting the Mash Tun higher than the HLT while sparging. Lower MT add sparge water, raise MT drain sparge water, lower MT add second sparge, raise MT drain sparge water. Just a thought.

Also, try drawing it so your fermenter is on the ground, maybe go immersion chiller, and you can probably make your Kettle stationary and just move your Mash Tun.

Most of the 3 tier units I've seen have the kettle too low to get a carboy under it to directly drain into, or are super tall and need a ladder.

Also, you don't need a burner under your Mash Tun.
 
How much travel are you looking at? May be a heat resistant pneumatic cylinders with telescopic legs with holes to lock into place.
 
A worthy project, but you gotta look at the cost and time you put into it versus $120 for a March pump.
 
Sorry but I personally don't see how it's worth it. Pumps are (relatively) cheap and give you so much flexibility.

I remember someone on here using a winch to raise the bk on their 3-tier but even that seemed like the work required wasn't worth it. Building a single tier stand is super easy and moving around hoses with qd's takes little effort.
 
I think it's a great idea... try it out, THEN post!!! I say f*ck them naysayers, keep going, do what you gotta do, and get the people going. To quote Jedi Revvy:

"A lot of folks on the internet are armchair quarterbacks. And often offer opinion, without any actually experience with product at hand.

And other's just love to shoot people's ideas down. I often think it's better to just go ahead a do the diy, and if it works, THEN put the thread together and get worshipped as a god of DIY."

Yeah, what he said... listen to him. Peace.
 
Isamu_Dyson said:
I think it's a great idea... try it out, THEN post!!! I say f*ck them naysayers, keep going, do what you gotta do, and get the people going. To quote Jedi Revvy:

"A lot of folks on the internet are armchair quarterbacks. And often offer opinion, without any actually experience with product at hand.

And other's just love to shoot people's ideas down. I often think it's better to just go ahead a do the diy, and if it works, THEN put the thread together and get worshipped as a god of DIY."

Yeah, what he said... listen to him. Peace.
Click to expand...

I'm tired of the Jedi and others hammering the naysayers. If someone asks for thoughts, they will get positive and negative. If the OP did't want criticism, he/she shouldn't ask for it. Just build it and post your results. Personally, if I was doing something stupid, I would want someone to point that out.
 
passedpawn said:
I'm tired of the Jedi and others hammering the naysayers. If someone asks for thoughts, they will get positive and negative. If the OP did't want criticism, he/she shouldn't ask for it. Just build it and post your results. Personally, if I was doing something stupid, I would want someone to point that out.
Click to expand...

+1, is not naysaying when your opinion is asked for. Why put a ton of money into a project that could have been better? There are only so many brewing setups that are practical.

Not saying this one isn't, But if you don't have a pump three tier is a viable option.
 
Yeah, screw that. If I can't chisel away at another's hopes and dreams, I might as well just cancel my HBT membership. It's why I wake up in the morning. :ban:

Seriously though, while there are people who really like to poo poo other's ideas, can you imagine that some naysayers actually know what the hell they are talking about and have the design and practical knowledge to back up their criticisms?

Since the OP's design is already limited to batch sparging, there's no reason to gravity drain anything. You can still run a single tier and drain into a bucket, then pour it to the next vessel.

Also, I wouldn't recommend direct firing a Keg Mash Tun without recirculation.
 
Bobby_M said:
Seriously though, while there are people who really like to poo poo other's ideas, can you imagine that some naysayers actually know what the hell they are talking about and have the design and practical knowledge to back up their criticisms?
Click to expand...

Unlike yourself.;)
 
It won't work. You can't make beer with a winch :)

Have fun, and be careful.

If I may, I'd just like to say from my own experience that after making a couple large rigs, I've learned the hard way that it's important to keep things streamlined. I ended up rebuilding things several times because I had such a huge footprint. If you manage your space efficiently, I think you'll be happier with the end result.
 
Lil' Sparky said:
Sorry but I personally don't see how it's worth it. Pumps are (relatively) cheap and give you so much flexibility.
Click to expand...

I dont get it either. The money you would put into making something like this work would cost you a lot more than 1 pump.
 
passedpawn said:
I'm tired of the Jedi and others hammering the naysayers. If someone asks for thoughts, they will get positive and negative. If the OP did't want criticism, he/she shouldn't ask for it. Just build it and post your results. Personally, if I was doing something stupid, I would want someone to point that out.
Click to expand...

I think the problem comes in how the criticism occurs. For example, if someone says they don't want to use a pump (for what ever reason, it is their choice) and then someone comes along and says..."use a pump it's better." That isn't helpful. Perhaps the person has myriad reasons for not wanting to use a pump. Critique the design at hand, which was what the OP asked for, and that is helpful. Telling them they should just use a pump, isn't.

Oh, and hi, I'm unklesam, and i recently popped my AG cherry last week on an Irish Red Ale, and could not have done this without the exceptional advice given on this board. I just hate to see threads that could result in new innovations be squashed because people squabble...
 
If you already had a winch, and really wanted to do it, then why not? I'm thinking I'll probably just do a 2-tier system and lift my water. But I also want a RIMS system eventually, so I have to get a pump anyway. But I have thought about a winch system of some sort. All of my designs required making it fairly complex, in order to be stable. Much harder and costly then buying a $125 pump.
 
I don't think this is a waste of money or time at all. He has to build a brewrig anyway and doing one like I drew could be modified with a pump to go from Mash Tun to Kettle and do without the lifting mechanism, so it's a cheap retrofit. He'd only loose the $30 winch and about $20 in material to make the lifting arm and maybe $20 in pullies, so $70 he'd be out to try something that might be next big move in budget brewing.

If he went to a pump, he'd still leave it multi-tier where he would gravity from HLT to Mash Tun then pump up to Kettle (so he could fly sparge). It's not like he'd have to re-engineer the wheel here.

And to the other nay-sayers that say "just a cheap pump", you are missing out on the additional cost of those quick disconnects and hoses and plumbing. So ya, $120 for a pump, but all the extra to go with it would easily be an aditional $100. So, $220+ to make this a pump system, or $70 to make it a lifted gravity system.

I still say make the kettle as low as possible, stationary, and still able to gravity into a carboy. Then, only hoist the Mash Tun. Simple and effective.
 
unklesam said:
I think the problem comes in how the criticism occurs. For example, if someone says they don't want to use a pump (for what ever reason, it is their choice) and then someone comes along and says..."use a pump it's better." That isn't helpful. Perhaps the person has myriad reasons for not wanting to use a pump. Critique the design at hand, which was what the OP asked for, and that is helpful. Telling them they should just use a pump, isn't.
...
Click to expand...

Welcome unklesam. The thing is, people who have been down these roads before sometimes anticipate that the OP doesn't fully understand what they perceive as design constraint, even when they think they do. Maybe the OP thinks pumps are cost prohibitive. While they might be, the workaround solution is identified as costing more. Maybe OP thinks pumps are a hassle. No more so than hoisting stuff. When people are first getting started with any topic, they don't know what they don't know and they may not even know what questions they should be asking. The presumptuous critics may seem like a bunch of know it alls but it beats the bunch of know nothings every time.
 
Bobby_M said:
Welcome unklesam. The thing is, people who have been down these roads before sometimes anticipate that the OP doesn't fully understand what they perceive as design constraint, even when they think they do. Maybe the OP thinks pumps are cost prohibitive. While they might be, the workaround solution is identified as costing more. Maybe OP thinks pumps are a hassle. No more so than hoisting stuff. When people are first getting started with any topic, they don't know what they don't know and they may not even know what questions they should be asking. The presumptuous critics may seem like a bunch of know it alls but it beats the bunch of know nothings every time.
Click to expand...

And I don't disagree with most of what you said. I think it is more the delivery of "...why not just get a pump...?" Instead of, "what are the reasons you don't want to use a pump?" And if indeed those answers are cost, or hassle, people can share positive experience to help the OP understand they might be spending more on a different set up, etc. The critiques that help me the most are from people who have attempted something similar and can help troubleshoot, not from people that simply say, get a pump. Or, "best way to bottle is...keg!"

And thank you for the greeting, and the bulkhead design, i used some of your ideas when crafting mine.
 
KiltedCorpse said:
I don't think this is a waste of money or time at all. He has to build a brewrig anyway and doing one like I drew could be modified with a pump to go from Mash Tun to Kettle and do without the lifting mechanism, so it's a cheap retrofit. He'd only loose the $30 winch and about $20 in material to make the lifting arm and maybe $20 in pullies, so $70 he'd be out to try something that might be next big move in budget brewing.

If he went to a pump, he'd still leave it multi-tier where he would gravity from HLT to Mash Tun then pump up to Kettle (so he could fly sparge). It's not like he'd have to re-engineer the wheel here.

And to the other nay-sayers that say "just a cheap pump", you are missing out on the additional cost of those quick disconnects and hoses and plumbing. So ya, $120 for a pump, but all the extra to go with it would easily be an aditional $100. So, $220+ to make this a pump system, or $70 to make it a lifted gravity system.

I still say make the kettle as low as possible, stationary, and still able to gravity into a carboy. Then, only hoist the Mash Tun. Simple and effective.
Click to expand...

This is why I went with my winch design. It cost me only about 100 bucks all in, (winch, winch arm, dolly, etc.), and works great. I could have gone the pump route, but then I would have had sunk in a lot more money. (plus I didn't want to build a stand due to space limitations, but that doesn't seem to be the OPs concern).

Pumps are great, but ain't cheap.
 
Wow, well then. I did not mean to open a can of worms there, but I'm sorry to any who were offended on all sides. I was just trowing out the idea of a new type of system that might be cheaper than a pump system. My experience to date has always been take over the whole kitchen or deck, and do things "old school" I guess. The winch idea is novel, as is the swinging arm idea. I do mostly batch sparge unless I'm feeling spunky to get out the ladder and portable scaffold. The whole pump thing is not new to me (10+ years in the reef/freshwater aquarium hobby), but seems, I guess, just more parts to fail. I thought of a 3 tier, but this idea seemed kinda novel and thought if anybody had ideas about moving the kettle/tuns that it might lift that amount of weight in a cheap manner. Building materials both metal and wood are virtually free for me, so that cost is not really in the picture.
 
shortyjacobs said:
This is why I went with my winch design. It cost me only about 100 bucks all in,

Pumps are great, but ain't cheap.
Click to expand...
I got my march pump for $80
Just saying :D

StoutFan said:
Wow, well then. I did not mean to open a can of worms there, but I'm sorry to any who were offended on all sides. I was just trowing out the idea of a new type of system that might be cheaper than a pump system. My experience to date has always been take over the whole kitchen or deck, and do things "old school" I guess. The winch idea is novel, as is the swinging arm idea. I do mostly batch sparge unless I'm feeling spunky to get out the ladder and portable scaffold. The whole pump thing is not new to me (10+ years in the reef/freshwater aquarium hobby), but seems, I guess, just more parts to fail. I thought of a 3 tier, but this idea seemed kinda novel and thought if anybody had ideas about moving the kettle/tuns that it might lift that amount of weight in a cheap manner. Building materials both metal and wood are virtually free for me, so that cost is not really in the picture.
Click to expand...
Thats cool that you like going big. Nothing wrong with that. My only comment (not as a USE PUMPS attitude) is about teh "more parts to fail thing. Nobody here has had problems with the pumps and if something was to fail, I'd rather it be a pump break siphon and have to drain into buckets, then a winch fail while holding 5-10 gallons of boiling hot water/wort 3 feet over my head :D
 
passedpawn said:
..hammering the naysayers...
Click to expand...
Oh, sh*t, sorry, man. I didn't mean it like that... I just felt like throwing a 311 lyric in there and a quote from Revvy. :mug:

I totally respects your guys' opinions and appreciate you sharing your experiences. If I didn't, I wouldn't know SH*T 'bout homebrewin'! I learn it all from this forum. Peace. :rockin:
 
IrregularPulse said:
I got my march pump for $80
Just saying :D


Thats cool that you like going big. Nothing wrong with that. My only comment (not as a USE PUMPS attitude) is about teh "more parts to fail thing. Nobody here has had problems with the pumps and if something was to fail, I'd rather it be a pump break siphon and have to drain into buckets, then a winch fail while holding 5-10 gallons of boiling hot water/wort 3 feet over my head :D
Click to expand...

I was just relating my personal experience of 100 gallons of water emptying out of a fish tank onto the floor cause a pump seal failed. The idea has merit, but (not in a giving in attitude) I think the pump system might work better, and if there are no horror stories of beer and floor, i might just let gravity do the work fot the HLT, and just pump from MLT to kettle. Thanks to all for the input though!
 
StoutFan said:
I was just relating my personal experience of 100 gallons of water emptying out of a fish tank onto the floor cause a pump seal failed.
Click to expand...

I understand your hesitance but March pumps are pretty robust and not your average aquarium pump. I have never heard of a seal breaking on a March Pump yet.
 
If your gonna have a winch to lift the keggles/pots around, just place the kettle in front of or just to the side of the rig and you will then be able to fly sparge. Using the winch to place the kettle back on the burner for the boil. This will also save the winch failer problem with a keggle/pot 3 feet above your head.

I say build it. If materials are cheap/free you wont be out much, just some time. I think that is a fair trade for some knowledge of what you like and don't like.

Cheers,
:mug:
 
StoutFan said:
I think the pump system might work better, and if there are no horror stories of beer and floor, i might just let gravity do the work fot the HLT, and just pump from MLT to kettle. Thanks to all for the input though!
Click to expand...

Unless you plan on recirculating the mash, I'd recommend gavity draining your MLT and pumping from your HLT and BK. It'll avoid some compacted mashes. Of course I'm probably just a naysayer busting your balls with no experience in the matter whatsoever, so take it for what it's worth. ;)
 

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