What do the big boys use?

To calcualate their batches?

Is it ProMash, BeerSmith, a napkin?

And what is so difficult about having a "batch lookup" section on the malsters websites? I mean, you'd think that it would be easier for a malster to just upload a MA to a DB and allow customers to key in the batch info from the sack to get a downloadable copy.

After reading a bit on Probrewer.com, I saw that a lot of guys use ProMash or Beersmith. I'm sure the bigger bigboys use proprietary software incorporated into their automated brew systems.

A not-so-big boy I know uses a calculator, logbook, and a wheel.

They still make incredible beers

whih maltster gila? i know dingemans has a lot analysis online which is actually cargill and covers dingemans, gambrinus, meussdorfer,warminster,pauls and cargill here Lot Analysis Program - Cargill Malt Specialty Products Group

I did use ProMash, and I now use Beersmith. I liked ProMash better, but Beersmith is fine.


TL

eriktlupus said:

whih maltster gila? i know dingemans has a lot analysis online which is actually cargill and covers dingemans, gambrinus, meussdorfer,warminster,pauls and cargill here Lot Analysis Program - Cargill Malt Specialty Products Group

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Now that is what I am talking about! THAT makes sense to me.

I wish Briess would follow that logic.

I've seen other maltsters put an "average" lot analysis for a given year on their website. I guess that's OK depending on the standard deviation of MA parameters between the collective lots.

I like what Cargill's done there. I also think malt analyses should be issued with each sack (or lot-specific order) and treated like a chain of custody form... but that's probably asking for too much in the homebrewer world.

menschmaschine said:

but that's probably asking for too much in the homebrewer world.

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I disagree. The collective "we" are, IMO, just as important a customer despite our purchase volume per individual. And our product is more variable than is the commercial product. Yet, we are just as capable of consistency but are not given specified data to support the potential. Which is why I think that Cargill has the best approach. I mean, they already print the batch/lot numbers on the sacks. Why not allow those who are interested to access the data.

All to often I hear "most wouldn't know how to read a MA anyway". That is a disgusting excuse. Hell, most of us had no clue about enzyme activity until we learned and applied ourselves..

I've seen some pretty complicated excel spreadsheets in use. They tend to grow so large and complicated that it would be difficult for them to switch to something else that isn't a custom solution

GilaMinumBeer said:

I disagree. The collective "we" are, IMO, just as important a customer despite our purchase volume per individual. And our product is more variable than is the commercial product. Yet, we are just as capable of consistency but are not given specified data to support the potential. Which is why I think that Cargill has the best approach. I mean, they already print the batch/lot numbers on the sacks. Why not allow those who are interested to access the data.

All to often I hear "most wouldn't know how to read a MA anyway". That is a disgusting excuse. Hell, most of us had no clue about enzyme activity until we learned and applied ourselves..

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OK, I retract my statement! You're right. If North Country Malt Supply can send me a lot-specific MA sheet for each type of grain I order (even down to a couple pounds of various specialty malts), then it's not asking for too much!

eriktlupus said:

whih maltster gila? i know dingemans has a lot analysis online which is actually cargill and covers dingemans, gambrinus, meussdorfer,warminster,pauls and cargill here Lot Analysis Program - Cargill Malt Specialty Products Group

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Wow, that looks like a lot of gibberish... Looking more closely, it's legible, but just skimming...

menschmaschine said:

If North Country Malt Supply can send me a lot-specific MA sheet for each type of grain I order (even down to a couple pounds of various specialty malts), then it's not asking for too much!

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Well, that is not what I am saying. I don;t expect any malster or malt distributor to bear the burden of printing, sorting, and storing a hard copy. But, a typical analysis is akin to the store owner sayiong "You wouldn't understand it......".

All I am saying is that it's wrong to have to buy by the pallet to have the right to receive the specific information when it would be so much easier on the supplier to allow consumers to download at their discretion.

Oh and BTW. Just by the mere fact that it's worth while for you to order from NC mean you are teh suk! :cross: I have looked and shipping alone is more than buying from high priced LHBS. It's nice to hear tho' that they include MA's on even the smallest of orders.

I'm 6' 3", and I use Promash.

-a.

Bokonon said:

I've seen some pretty complicated excel spreadsheets in use. They tend to grow so large and complicated that it would be difficult for them to switch to something else that isn't a custom solution

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So at the end of the day, no different than 90% of the rest of businesses in the USA.

trying to red a malt analysis? here is a site that explains it and also how to come up with the ppg or the batch your looking at BMG - Understanding Malt Analysis Sheets -- How to Become Fluent in Malt Analysis Interpretation

simply put fro ppg (extract(cg) - moisture% -.002) X brewhouse efficiency(100) = yield

ppg = yield X 46.214

I use a napkin or a post it note to make my recipe. My recipe is basically a shopping list for when I go to the brew store. Then I use beer calculus when I get home and brew so that I have a nice printout recipe of what I brewed and have something to make notes on.

Sometimes I use beer calculus if I know I need to keep the gravity down to like .030-.040 range - I've been doing that a lot lately because I've found that I like to drink smaller beers better than the bigger ones.

chumprock said:

A not-so-big boy I know uses a calculator, logbook, and a wheel.

They still make incredible beers

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Calculator, logbook and a wheel. You a pilot?

In the beginning, hell yeah, a calculator and notebook/logbook. Still used the calculator and notebook for the first five years of my pro career.

Got a copy of ProMash when I switched gigs once, and still use it, primarily for liquor calculations and record-keeping. I tend to lose notebooks due to not brewing every day anymore...

Even after I got ProMash, I used a pad of graph paper to track ferments, just like I started doing in my first gig. Bell curves rool. And I kept a logbook. I always kept paper records for convenience's sake when I was a pro, should ATF or the excise ever want to peruse my records.

But to answer the OP most clearly, most 'big boys' don't really need software. You kind of know what you're going to get from what ingredient in what batch size. It's like professional chefs, really; you get to know your ingredients and how they play together.

For example, I never really used software to determine things like gravity and IBU. When my minimum batch size is 10bbl, I'm not measuring 2 pounds of this malt, 3 pounds of that malt; I'm using whole and half sacks. Keeps things simple when ordering ingredients and at dough-in. Say I know I get a gravity of 1.055 from 9 sacks of pale and 1 sack of 55L crystal. If I want to brew a different beer with that gravity, I can use 4 sacks of pale, 3 sacks of Munich and 3 sacks of Vienna and get something completely different.

Same goes with hops. If I know I get a certain amount of bitterness with a pound of Target at 10% AA in 10bbl at OG 1.055, I can use that datum as a way to arrive at a new bittering charge in a different beer, without resorting to software.

Anyway, that's gross oversimplification with holes big enough to drive a truck through. But what I'm trying to convey is so internal, so "you have to be there" that it's hard to explain. You just know, you know?

Bob

Cheers,