Keg Priming: Force or traditional

Got this off another website on kegging:
Priming: It is possible to prime your beer just as you would normally do for bottle-conditioning. You could then use a hand pump and picnic tap to dispense the beer. A CO2 system, however, makes it easier to obtain a consistent level of carbonation, and the carbonation can be adjusted at will.

I keep reading about cold conditioning and storage. Up to the point that you put the brew into the keg, or priming bucket for bottling, the steps are exactly the same for both bottling and kegging. From this point on, I've read numerous differences.
Can I prime the conventional way using the same amount of corn sugar as I would if I was bottling? I've read that you have to use a lessor amount. What's up with that?
Now, let's say I prime the conventional way and put into the keg instead of bottles. Let sit for up to two weeks, just like in bottling. Then, should be ready to drink. According to the above mentioned heading, I could either get a hand pump or use the CO2 to get the beer to pour out of the tap. From what I'm reading, it doesn't have to be refrigerated. The only reason we refrigerate our brew is because we like it cold, right? It serves no extra benefit for brew conditioning, am I right????
Or, I could run the tap serving line through an ice bath to chill the beer before it hits my glass, but I don't have to chill the whole keg. Can that be correct? I mean, I've been in Germany and they laugh at use for refrigerating our Ales.

The reason I'm asking is two fold: Trying to get a logical understanding of temperature and conditioning and the other reason is that I'm about ready to order a kegging kit but not quite ready, nor haven't looked around enough, to figure out exactly how I want and where to put a keg cooler.

I think you'll get next to no cooling if you run your supply line thorough an ice bath. Unless your supply line is copper or stainless steel and and you've got a 10 foot coil.

My understanding is that it will carb faster if the beer is left at room temp. and yes you can leave it at room temp. just don't get it hot.

Ol' Grog said:

Got this off another website on kegging:
Priming: It is possible to prime your beer just as you would normally do for bottle-conditioning. You could then use a hand pump and picnic tap to dispense the beer. A CO2 system, however, makes it easier to obtain a consistent level of carbonation, and the carbonation can be adjusted at will.

Click to expand...

You can use a picnic tap, but I wouldn't. This really is a single event situation. Using a picnic tap introduces oxygen to the beer. O2 hastens spoilage and flattens the beer. If you are taking your beer to an event you can use this method. If there is any left over, you can purge and add CO2 to preserve the beer.

Ol' Grog said:

I keep reading about cold conditioning and storage. Up to the point that you put the brew into the keg, or priming bucket for bottling, the steps are exactly the same for both bottling and kegging. From this point on, I've read numerous differences.
Can I prime the conventional way using the same amount of corn sugar as I would if I was bottling? I've read that you have to use a lessor amount. What's up with that?

Click to expand...

Keg is more efficient than multiple bottles so use less priming sugar.

Ol' Grog said:

Now, let's say I prime the conventional way and put into the keg instead of bottles. Let sit for up to two weeks, just like in bottling. Then, should be ready to drink. According to the above mentioned heading, I could either get a hand pump or use the CO2 to get the beer to pour out of the tap. From what I'm reading, it doesn't have to be refrigerated. The only reason we refrigerate our brew is because we like it cold, right? It serves no extra benefit for brew conditioning, am I right????

Click to expand...

Cold and CO2 preserves the beer. A cracked beer at room temperature is what you are describing. Like a resealable 40 oz left in the kitchen.

You don't NEED cold, but you need CO2.

Ol' Grog said:

Or, I could run the tap serving line through an ice bath to chill the beer before it hits my glass, but I don't have to chill the whole keg. Can that be correct? I mean, I've been in Germany and they laugh at use for refrigerating our Ales.

Click to expand...

Seach for Jockey Box. This can be done as long as you use CO2.
Also search for SonVolts Beer Engine.

Ol' Grog said:

The reason I'm asking is two fold: Trying to get a logical understanding of temperature and conditioning and the other reason is that I'm about ready to order a kegging kit but not quite ready, nor haven't looked around enough, to figure out exactly how I want and where to put a keg cooler.

Click to expand...

The relationship is thus.
If you are using natural carbonation you are essentially keeping the yeast alive to do your bidding, so you must maintain thier confortable environment.

If you are using forced carbonation, then you are better served refrigerating the keg because CO2 is absorbed more quickly at colder temperatures.

Part of the cold conditioning equation is coldness helps things settle better and the yeast slows down and goes dormant.

Hope that helps.

You need CO2 to keg (for preservation). You want cold, but don't need it.

Thanks, this leads to another question that I haven't even considered. For kegging, you still can go to primary-secondary and then keg, right? Or do you by-pass the secondary and go straight to the keg?
And from what I've read on the picnic tap, it works OK you just have to reduce CO2 pressure to about 1-2 psi for serving, if you don't, you'll get a foam bath.

Oops! I was thinking Picnic pump and not tap. Picnic tap is OK, but PITA.
Saves $ but ultimately gets replaced.

Tap Cobra Tap Picnic tap


pump (I was thinking this was what you were talking about:




I go primary secondary keg, but i know that David_42 does not. If you don't then your first couple of beers will have more sediment. Also you need to burp off headspace occasionally. I think there's a thread that taks about that

That cobra head comes standard with the keg kit I'm looking at getting. I wasn't thinking about the pump. I was thinking along the lines of maybe dispensing it in a one gallon jug and cooling that off in a quick ice bath. When I'm done, pump some CO2 in the keg and leave alone until the next time I want some. I figure if that will work without spoiling the beer, I can use the keg that way until I get around and research the type, size of keg cooler that I want. You guys have made me go kegging. Two weeks ago, I wouldn't have even thought about it.

Just one more thing. Priming with corn sugar....how much am I going to use on a typical 5 gallon batch if I'm going to keg it? 1/2 that of bottling? 1/4??

Use 1/3 cup for 5 gallons
http://www.northernbrewer.com/docum...m.pdf#search="forced carbonation temperature"


You can force carb at room temperature, it just takes more pressure and perhaps more time.

I usually set to 10 psi in my fridge, but if you could do 30.7 psi to get 2.4 volumes at 76 degrees.


http://brewery.org/library/CO2charts.html

This came from the northern brewers website....this is TOTALLY WRONG!!!!

The actual flow resistance of a tube is influenced by many
factors, such as material, inner diameter and the degree to
which it bent or coiled. The most dramatic effect is tubing
diameter. All other things being equal, it is much harder to
force beer through a narrow diameter tube than a large
diameter one. The approximate flow resistance of 1/4"
vinyl beverage tubing is 0.65-0.85 pounds/foot. Compare
that to narrower 3/16" beverage tubing at approximately
2.2-3.0 pounds/foot. In practical terms, if you carbonate
beer at 15 PSI, this means you will need 13-23 feet of 1/4"
beverage tubing to have a balanced system. In comparison,
you will need just 5-7 feet of 3/16" tubing to achieve the
same result.

Ol' Grog said:

This came from the northern brewers website....this is TOTALLY WRONG!!!!

The actual flow resistance of a tube is influenced by many
factors, such as material, inner diameter and the degree to
which it bent or coiled. The most dramatic effect is tubing
diameter. All other things being equal, it is much harder to
force beer through a narrow diameter tube than a large
diameter one. The approximate flow resistance of 1/4"
vinyl beverage tubing is 0.65-0.85 pounds/foot. Compare
that to narrower 3/16" beverage tubing at approximately
2.2-3.0 pounds/foot. In practical terms, if you carbonate
beer at 15 PSI, this means you will need 13-23 feet of 1/4"
beverage tubing to have a balanced system. In comparison,
you will need just 5-7 feet of 3/16" tubing to achieve the
same result.

Click to expand...

Actually, that's correct. However, if you serve at 10 PSI, you'll only need the standard 6 ft of 1/4" hose.

Picture it this way: forcibly blow air through one of those tiny coffee stirrer type straws. Then try to exert as much pressure by blowing through a normal drinking straw of the same length.

Ol' Grog said:

This came from the northern brewers website....this is TOTALLY WRONG!!!!

The actual flow resistance of a tube is influenced by many
factors, such as material, inner diameter and the degree to
which it bent or coiled. The most dramatic effect is tubing
diameter. All other things being equal, it is much harder to
force beer through a narrow diameter tube than a large
diameter one. The approximate flow resistance of 1/4"
vinyl beverage tubing is 0.65-0.85 pounds/foot. Compare
that to narrower 3/16" beverage tubing at approximately
2.2-3.0 pounds/foot. In practical terms, if you carbonate
beer at 15 PSI, this means you will need 13-23 feet of 1/4"
beverage tubing to have a balanced system. In comparison,
you will need just 5-7 feet of 3/16" tubing to achieve the
same result.

Click to expand...

The point of this is that you want the pressure to drop slowly, from keg to spigot. Big, low resistance hose would allow full pressure at the spigot, where the co2 would expand suddenly, making foam. Also, open the spigot fully, or you have a sudden drop in resistance as the beer passes through the restriction, the spigot.

As mentioned, I generally go straight from the fermenter into the keg. Nothing wrong with racking it to a clearing tank for a couple weeks, then to a keg, but I've found leaving the ale in the fermenter for two weeks before racking works well enough. My ales tend to sit for 6-8 weeks before going in the kegger and clarity isn't a problem. I never burp the keg except just before hooking it up in the kegger. I used to, but it doesn't seem to be necessary.

On using a stardard party tap, I've found that highly carbonated ales foam even if you cut the dispensing pressure to 1-2 psi. If you build your party tap out of 6 feet of 3/16ths tubing it works much better. I don't know why 3/16ths isn't stock for party taps.

Beer lasts longer if you keep it cool. If you normally start drinking it after two weeks in the bottle, the first sentence doesn't make any sense to you.