I am an idiot

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Forks over Knives. It aint the bible, but it sure as hell is thought provoking.

Meat is shed in a less than desirable light.
 
bottlebomber said:
And that's a praiseworthy attitude to have towards meat consumption. I never did claim that eating meat is unhealthy, however it is in the quantity/quality that many people choose to consume it. Meat has traditionally been a luxury for agrarian society, as there has not been a way to preserve fresh meat until recently, and raising animals is incredibly expensive in terms of resources used. I can tell you for sure that if I was ever to eat red meat in any significant quantity I would want to literally meet the animal if not raise or hunt it myself. I find willingly induced obesity and people's eating habits in general to be a thing of disgust. That more than anything turns me off to the idea of (unnecessarily) eating meat.
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I agree, if you raise it, you know what was involved in getting it ready for the table from its beginning to its humane (hopefully) ending. I can barely tolerate the grocery store offerings and look at the stuff they display as meat, poultry or even fish/seafood and I refuse to buy 90% of it. That's why we hunt, fish, garden and forage for alot of our food. It is less effort to grow and forage than to hunt and fish for them which makes it easier to keep our plates at about 2/3 veggie and 1/3 protein.
That said, I am very much carnivore-centric, with a well known passion for Bacon and I believe all meat to be extremely delicious!
 
Goofynewfie said:
the Irish in me was ready to go grab my torch and pitch fork
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Oh no, not again!

cheezydemon3 said:
Care for sour kraut? One of the best things ever.
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..... ... .. . . ...........................You know. I can't ever remember having sour kraut.

bottlebomber said:
Haha... Well first, what you consider delicious others may not. For example, I can guarantee you I would not consider a steak delicious. And I like things that you do not. Taste is a matter of perspective, so what you're presenting isn't even really an argument. People in Japan eat fermented fish that's been buried in pots full of rice for years, some of them love it but that doesn't make it more or less legitimate. Furthermore, many of the people who go for the "meat substitute" products were former meat eaters who changed their diet for health or ethical reasons, so they are trying to find something similar to what they once enjoyed. While being vegetarian is certainly healthier and more environmentally friendly, those are not my reasons for doing so. And I don't really care for overpriced meat substitute products. I get my protein from beans, grains, and occasionally tofu.
Click to expand...
Just out of curiosity, have you managed to cook tofu in such as way that it doesn't have the texture of unrendered animal fat? It's the texture, not the flavor, that I don't like about tofu.

m_c_zero said:
42?

Oh wait... That's the meaning of life. Damn, I've forgotten?
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I see you are descended from a very distinguished line of hair dressers and telephone sanitizers.
 
Leadgolem said:
Just out of curiosity, have you managed to cook tofu in such as way that it doesn't have the texture of unrendered animal fat? It's the texture, not the flavor, that I don't like about tofu.
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Absolutely, I wouldn't tolerate such a texture either. There are 3 things that need to be done. Thing one is that it needs to be firm or extra firm tofu. If it is silken tofu it is useless to me. Thing two is that you need to press some of the water out of it, so after you remove it from the package you need to put it on a cutting board between clean dish towels and put something heavy on it for 10 minutes or so. And finally you need to braise the outside so that it gets a nice chewy texture. One of my favorite things to do is slice the block across the length into 1/4" slices and fry it lightly in a little oil on nonstick until it is golden brown, then I glaze it in BBQ sauce and make sandwiches with it. I guarantee you would dig it. Also I will cube it, lightly dust in cornstarch to help it make a crust, fry it till crispy, and make kabobs with it. These are some I made not long ago.

image-3192577253.jpg
 
bottlebomber said:
Absolutely, I wouldn't tolerate such a texture either. There are 3 things that need to be done. Thing one is that it needs to be firm or extra firm tofu. If it is silken tofu it is useless to me. Thing two is that you need to press some of the water out of it, so after you remove it from the package you need to put it on a cutting board between clean dish towels and put something heavy on it for 10 minutes or so. And finally you need to braise the outside so that it gets a nice chewy texture. One of my favorite things to do is slice the block across the length into 1/4" slices and fry it lightly in a little oil on nonstick until it is golden brown, then I glaze it in BBQ sauce and make sandwiches with it. I guarantee you would dig it. Also I will cube it, lightly dust in cornstarch to help it make a crust, fry it till crispy, and make kabobs with it. These are some I made not long ago.
Click to expand...

That does look good.

If you are interested, you could make the silken tofu into a korean style stew like the linked http://www.maangchi.com/recipe/soondubu-jjigae and swap out some of the meat items or omit them. Perhaps save you a trip that one time you pick up the wrong package at the store. Ive had a version very close to the recipe at places in Korea town here in NY and its pretty out of this world.

By the way, do you shun ingredients like Worcheshire sauce?
 
CreamyGoodness said:
That does look good.

If you are interested, you could make the silken tofu into a korean style stew like the linked http://www.maangchi.com/recipe/soondubu-jjigae and swap out some of the meat items or omit them. Perhaps save you a trip that one time you pick up the wrong package at the store. Ive had a version very close to the recipe at places in Korea town here in NY and its pretty out of this world.

By the way, do you shun ingredients like Worcheshire sauce?
Click to expand...

It does look good, I'll have to give that a try. I used to shun ingredients like worcheshire sauce but lately I've not been that picky. I really dislike fishy seafood such as shrimp though.
 
bottlebomber said:
Absolutely, I wouldn't tolerate such a texture either. There are 3 things that need to be done. Thing one is that it needs to be firm or extra firm tofu. If it is silken tofu it is useless to me. Thing two is that you need to press some of the water out of it, so after you remove it from the package you need to put it on a cutting board between clean dish towels and put something heavy on it for 10 minutes or so. And finally you need to braise the outside so that it gets a nice chewy texture. One of my favorite things to do is slice the block across the length into 1/4" slices and fry it lightly in a little oil on nonstick until it is golden brown, then I glaze it in BBQ sauce and make sandwiches with it. I guarantee you would dig it. Also I will cube it, lightly dust in cornstarch to help it make a crust, fry it till crispy, and make kabobs with it. These are some I made not long ago.
Click to expand...

Those kabobs look great!
Pressing the water out is definitely a step that shouldn't be skipped when preparing tofu. It can also help if you plan on marinating it.
I'll have to try the kabobs one day, though. Even though I love meat and could never give it up completely, I still enjoy veggies and even like tofu and tempeh. I make some pretty good tempeh sushi rolls.
 
Goofynewfie said:
Bomber, have a good chili recipe using tofu? Ive never had it prepared very good
Click to expand...
It's not good for chili, but texturized vegetable protein (TVP) or gluten is great for that. I make that all the time. You can make any bean chili recipe you like and just sub the TVP.
WesleyS said:
Those kabobs look great!
Pressing the water out is definitely a step that shouldn't be skipped when preparing tofu. It can also help if you plan on marinating it.
I'll have to try the kabobs one day, though. Even though I love meat and could never give it up completely, I still enjoy veggies and even like tofu and tempeh. I make some pretty good tempeh sushi rolls.
Click to expand...

:mug:
 
Goofynewfie said:
Bomber, have a good chili recipe using tofu? Ive never had it prepared very good
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Like bomber said, tofu isn't a good option for chili. I have made chili with the fake meat crumbles found in the frozen section next to the veggie burger patties. Besides the obvious texture difference, in chili you really can't tell much difference between it and actual ground meat.
 
There are different firmnesses for tofu.

I seem to really like tofu except when it is made to imitate meat.

Firm tofu fried or grilled with a little oil is fantastic!
 
bleme said:
I would agree that most Americans eat too much meat. Meat is concentrated nutrition, but it is also concentrated fat and calories. A diet that is centered around meat requires a person to consume far more calories than they need for them to feel full.
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Calories come from proteins, fats, carbohydrates, and alcohol. Protein and carbs have 4 calories per gram and fats have 9 calories per gram and alcohol has 7. So meat can be considered concentrated calories, due to fat content, but per pound it is not close to butter. And before it is said, yes you don't generally eat a pound of butter at one time, but many of the best vegetarian foods I've had have more butter than I generally use to give the meal some flavor.

bleme said:
Most of our processed ingredients are concentrated, like sugar and high fructose corn syrup. Even beer is concentrated. We strip the calories from the barley then boil it down to concentrate it even further.
Click to expand...

Concentration doesn't strip calories out of anything. It just boils off water. Overall calories of a dish (or beer) remains the same until either enzymes convert stuff or fermentation occurs.

bottlebomber said:
Meat has traditionally been a luxury for agrarian society, as there has not been a way to preserve fresh meat until recently, and raising animals is incredibly expensive in terms of resources used.
Click to expand...

I assume you mean preserve fresh meat without curing (as in feezing or refrigeration)? But even refrigeration existed before the modern day compressor based refrigerators. Ice was used as a refrigerant since prehistoric times, although I don't know how much i'd trust it to keep meat.

bottlebomber said:
Spare ribs always seemed kind of funny to me.. It's kind of like when I smoked cigarettes and someone would say "Hey you got an extra smoke?" I'd pull the pack out and look at it, "nope, this pack only came with 20. No extras."
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HA!

CreamyGoodness said:
I think the "spare" is a word to differentiate them from the "prime" rib. Though, when you think about it, they should really be called prime and composite ribs then.
Click to expand...

Prime indicates the quality of the meat, not the cut. Prime > Choice > Select. Don't ever buy select...nasty. Prime rib is usually the rib roast (or ribeye steaks in megamarket speak).

bottlebomber said:
Absolutely, I wouldn't tolerate such a texture either. There are 3 things that need to be done...
Click to expand...

I've tried a preparation like this a couple times. Something about the combination of the texture (both inside and out) and flavor of the large tofu chunks does not do it for me. Alton Brown had a recipe for "Bar-B-Fu" (I think that was how it was spelled). Essentially this preparation except with a marinade step in the middle. I seem to prefer smaller pieces that are added as nutrion without modifying the flavor of the dish (on salads, fried rice, miso soup, pho, etc.).

bottlebomber said:
It's not good for chili, but texturized vegetable protein (TVP) or gluten is great for that. I make that all the time. You can make any bean chili recipe you like and just sub the TVP.

:mug:
Click to expand...

Never looked into TVP, got any good recipes and specific recommendations on how to buy it?
 
The_Dog_42 said:
Never looked into TVP, got any good recipes and specific recommendations on how to buy it?
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I don't generally use recipes for cooking past the inspirational stage, but as far as variety I go for the "Mexican" kind in half gallon size bags usually sold as soya carne. The reason is that this kind has much larger pieces that are better than the hamburger size pieces found in the bulk food bins of most health food stores. This is the best kind for chili.
 
CreamyGoodness said:
Have you played with cactus?
Click to expand...

Growing up with Mexican family on my mom's side, I've had plenty of cactus. Mainly scrambled with eggs or in tacos. I personally don't care enough for it to experiment with it now. It's okay, but not a favorite.
 
WesleyS said:
Growing up with Mexican family on my mom's side, I've had plenty of cactus. Mainly scrambled with eggs or in tacos. I personally don't care enough for it to experiment with it now. It's okay, but not a favorite.
Click to expand...

Pickled or fresh roasted cactus in the eggs? Legit curious.

I have tried it a million ways and its always meh. I feel like its my responsibility to conquer it.
 
CreamyGoodness said:
Pickled or fresh roasted cactus in the eggs? Legit curious.

I have tried it a million ways and its always meh. I feel like its my responsibility to conquer it.
Click to expand...

The only way I've tried nopales that I really liked it was in a salad with minced cabbage, fire roasted poblano, diced tomatoes, onion and avocado. As far as how you are likely to champion the cactus, I think we all know where this is going to lead.
 
CreamyGoodness said:
But wouldnt a "Select" grade cow still have a "prime-rib" cut?
Click to expand...

Nope. A select cow would have a rib roast and ribeye steaks but no "prime rib" cut.

Thanks for the TVP suggestion. If you wanted hamburger size peices, can you cut down the soya carne?

I've eaten some plant stalks, leaves, flowers and fruit, but I can't say I've ever thought about cactus.
 
CreamyGoodness said:
Pickled or fresh roasted cactus in the eggs? Legit curious.

I have tried it a million ways and its always meh. I feel like its my responsibility to conquer it.
Click to expand...

Fresh. I don't think I've ever had pickled cactus.
And +1 on the Nopales Mead. ;)
 
bottlebomber said:
Absolutely, I wouldn't tolerate such a texture either. There are 3 things that need to be done. Thing one is that it needs to be firm or extra firm tofu. If it is silken tofu it is useless to me. Thing two is that you need to press some of the water out of it, so after you remove it from the package you need to put it on a cutting board between clean dish towels and put something heavy on it for 10 minutes or so. And finally you need to braise the outside so that it gets a nice chewy texture. One of my favorite things to do is slice the block across the length into 1/4" slices and fry it lightly in a little oil on nonstick until it is golden brown, then I glaze it in BBQ sauce and make sandwiches with it. I guarantee you would dig it. Also I will cube it, lightly dust in cornstarch to help it make a crust, fry it till crispy, and make kabobs with it. These are some I made not long ago.
Click to expand...
I think I will try this. I have somebody in the house who may be on medication for high cholesterol soon. So, subbing some of the meat in our diet with tofu should help reduce the saturated fat in our food.

CreamyGoodness said:
That does look good.

If you are interested, you could make the silken tofu into a korean style stew like the linked http://www.maangchi.com/recipe/soondubu-jjigae and swap out some of the meat items or omit them. Perhaps save you a trip that one time you pick up the wrong package at the store. Ive had a version very close to the recipe at places in Korea town here in NY and its pretty out of this world.

By the way, do you shun ingredients like Worcheshire sauce?
Click to expand...

This might be interesting too. I'm not usually a big fan of stew, but that looks good.

bottlebomber said:
It's not good for chili, but texturized vegetable protein (TVP) or gluten is great for that. I make that all the time. You can make any bean chili recipe you like and just sub the TVP.
:mug:
Click to expand...
This is another good idea. I can't remember seeing TVP in the grocery store. I think I will need to make a trip to a health food store.

The_Dog_42 said:
...I've tried a preparation like this a couple times. Something about the combination of the texture (both inside and out) and flavor of the large tofu chunks does not do it for me. Alton Brown had a recipe for "Bar-B-Fu" (I think that was how it was spelled). Essentially this preparation except with a marinade step in the middle. I seem to prefer smaller pieces that are added as nutrion without modifying the flavor of the dish (on salads, fried rice, miso soup, pho, etc.)...
Click to expand...
That was one of the recipes I tried last time I tried tofu... It almost made me put tofu on the list of things I refuse to every eat again.
 
Leadgolem said:
I think I will try this. I have somebody in the house who may be on medication for high cholesterol soon. So, subbing some of the meat in our diet with tofu should help reduce the saturated fat in our food.
Click to expand...
I'd be more than happy to help with recipe ideas. Cutting back on meat doesn't have to mean sitting there with a little wooden bowl full of cold tofu porridge. I really think you'd like the BBQ tofu sandwiches.
 
cheezydemon3 said:
Hot and sour soup. Slightly thickened, slimy bits of tofu are fantastic in this soup.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is an amazing thing. Probably the most time consuming soup I make, since everything needs to be cut into matchsticks for it to seem right. I think I got my base recipe from cooks illustrated, and I just omit the pork. Damn, I want some now actually.
 
In my house growing up spaghetti night (or as grandma would say 'a pot'a sauce') was what she called the necessary weekly "meatless meal."

I have no doubt Ive mentioned that before though.
 
Leadgolem said:
[Bar-B-Fu] was one of the recipes I tried last time I tried tofu... It almost made me put tofu on the list of things I refuse to every eat again.
Click to expand...

Yeah, like I said, wasn't a big fan of the final texture.

cheezydemon3 said:
Hot and sour soup. Slightly thickened, slimy bits of tofu are fantastic in this soup.
Click to expand...

Definitely!

For myself, I don't see the draw of a vegetarian diet. In a diet with meat, as long as I count the calories (not hard to do once you get used to it), I don't worry too much about the specific items I eat. With a vegetarian diet, I would be less inclined to count calories but would have to be more scrutinizing of the actual foods to make sure I still have a balanced nutrition intake, including all essential aminos.
 
cheezydemon3 said:
Hot and sour soup. Slightly thickened, slimy bits of tofu are fantastic in this soup.
Click to expand...

I've had some Indian food with tofu that was pretty good. I don't know the name of it of hand.

When I do Indian, I tend to go to a buffet restaurant. Not because I want to eat a lot, but because it makes it easy to sample many things.
 

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