Starters?

I thought the Wyeast smack packs did the same thing as a starter. Am I wrong?

no youre right.

WYeast smack packs are a starter

Now when using a stir plate, you constantly introduce oxygen into the starter. This will allow the yeast to reproduce. So then no.....WYeast desnt do that.

confused? good

Nice Chimone. Basically, the wyeast is a small starter but if you were making a big beer or a lager, it wouldn't hurt to make a bigger one. You want a big cell count for those bad boys...

No, smack packs are not a starter. The tiny amount of wort and nutrient in the packs is really only there to test the viability of the yeast prior to pitching. If you smack the pack and it swells, then you know it's viable yeast. If nothing happens within 8 hours, you may want to find new yeast. Even after the yeast get into the packet's wort/nutrient and reproduce, the cell count is still woefully inadequate, especially with higher-gravity beers.

Check out Mr. Malty's pitching calculator.

Each Wyeast Activator pack has 100 billion cells. According to Mr. Malty's calcs, for 5 gallons of 1.048 OG wort, you'd need 177 billion cells at pitching time. The tiny amount of wort in the smack pack will never be able to produce that many.

Wyeast claims that the packs are ready to pitch, but I beg to differ, as does Mr. Malty. I used to just pitch them directly, but once I had a 3-day lag time on my Cranberry Dubbel, I swore that I'd always make big starters for all my beers. I recommend you do the same. Do not trust Wyeast! Especially if you're making high-gravity beer.

One thing I have noticed in my short career as a home brewer is I get a way faster and vigorous fermentation with dry yeast or also a starter than compared to a smack pack.

Ok, I take back what I previously stated

The Wiki said:

Yeast Starters

Yeast Starters are used to boost the starting population of yeast before pitching it into the wort. They are usually prepared a few days before brewing, but they can be stored for longer if refrigerated. Using yeast starters generally results in a shorter lag time and a quicker fermentation.

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Ok, so it's only a starter if you are boosting the cell count. Smack Packs only prove that the yeast are alive and healthy.

My bad Dave

And like AleHole said, I have much less of a lag time with either dry yeast or an actual starter

It's a good idea to always make a starter, regardless of the type of beer you'll be brewing. You can ensure the viability of your yeast before you pitch it, and your lag times before airlock activity starts will decrease dramatically.

Dry yeast almost always has a faster and vigorous fermentation, but the down fall to dry is the minimal selection right? Which you then cant have as many choices for the yeast flavoring the beer as you do with smack packs and liquid yeast.
Correct me if I am wrrong

mot said:

Dry yeast almost always has a faster and vigorous fermentation, but the down fall to dry is the minimal selection right? Which you then cant have as many choices for the yeast flavoring the beer as you do with smack packs and liquid yeast.
Correct me if I am wrrong

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My fastest and most vigorous fermentation was the result of a 1 liter starter made with a vial of liquid yeast the day before.

ayrton said:

My fastest and most vigorous fermentation was the result of a 1 liter starter made with a vial of liquid yeast the day before.

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yeah starters will always be better, I was just comparing dry yeast to a smack pack, dry yeast is a little better right off the bat from what I have heard, could be wrong, but you dont have as many options with dry yeast vs smack packs

mot said:

yeah starters will always be better, I was just comparing dry yeast to a smack pack, dry yeast is a little better right off the bat from what I have heard, could be wrong, but you dont have as many options with dry yeast vs smack packs

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You're exactly right. Dry yeast actually doesn't want a starter, aside from not needing one. However, as you can see, trying to get a trappist ale yeast, for example, in commercial dry form is impossible. The tradeoff of having to make a starter is well worth it, though, in my opinion. I'll use dry yeast for certain styles that won't really exhibit the yeast anyway...like a big stout or a barleywine. Otherwise, I use liquid exclusively these days.

I prefer liquid yeast due to the variety of styles out there, I can always customer tailor my recipe just that little bit more. I typically use White Labs vials although I occasionally use Wyeast if I need something special (like when I got some Pacman). I always make a starter, typically Thursday night for a Saturday brew; it takes me maybe 30 minutes tops.

Thanks everyone for the input, I will try a starter next batch

One last thing, It starts the fermantion process faster. That sounds great but why do I need that. Does it help prevent infection? or is the starter only need with high gravity beers? The smack pack seems to start with 8 hours.

Yes, you give the yeast a chance to beat out other micro organisms. Also, as was stated earlier in this thread, the normal smack pack or vial has only around 100 billion cells, which, unless you are making a very low gravity beer (1.030's), you are under pitching the yeast. Making a starter gives you enough healthy, viable yeast to get a normal brew going with out straining the yeast too much.