Water chemistry

I'd like to be able to get some kind of an idea of my home's water chemistry. Are there any cheap tester kits I could buy that could give me some kind of measurement? I don't really want to send in water samples.

I have one of those Brita portable water filters. Do you guys run your tap water through one of these types of filters for beer purposes?

Sending a water sample to Wards is definitely cheaper than buying a testing kit. Kits run $100 and up for a certain number of tests. A Wards analysis is $21 for the "W-6 Household Water" test, which is fine for brewers. Just put your sample in an 8 or 12 ounce plastic water bottle and send it in with the form. Include a check and your email address and you have the results emailed to you in 3-4 days.

If your water is highly variable you may need to invest in a kit. The other option is to use RO water and build your own profiles. You can get your own system or by it at the big box stores for < 50¢ per gal.

Also, I just finished sending in a sample from my Pur filter and one straight from my tap. They came back almost identical. Unless you know you have some kind of volatile organics or something else evil in your water the filter doesn't seem to do much.

+1 to the advice to send off a sample. The ONLY reason not to, is if the water supply is known to vary...and even then, you will benefit from having a snapshot of what your water quality is at one time.

Be aware that some of these water filter units do have a set on de-ionizing resin columns in them and they can alter the mineral content of the treated water. But their de-ionizing capacity is limited and therefore not very practical for brewery use. You are better off sending off the unfiltered water and assessing what comes directly out of your tap.

Thanks for the replies! If I go with RO water, how do I build up the water profile? Any website recommendations?

I feel like even if I get my water tested, I would need to buy chemicals anyway to "clean" it up.

The infamous water chemistry primer is what you're looking for;

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=198460

Read it, then read it again. It will eventually start to make sense.

urg8rb8 said:

Thanks for the replies! If I go with RO water, how do I build up the water profile? Any website recommendations?

I feel like even if I get my water tested, I would need to buy chemicals anyway to "clean" it up.

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Bru'n water website.

My next batch will be my first all-grain and it will also be a dunkelweizen. I think I will use my tap water first and see what it tastes like. I might change my mind before then but it looks like if I wanted to use RO, all I really need to get is: gypsum, calcium chloride, and lactic acid (to substitute for Acid Malt).

urg8rb8 said:

My next batch will be my first all-grain and it will also be a dunkelweizen. I think I will use my tap water first and see what it tastes like. I might change my mind before then but it looks like if I wanted to use RO, all I really need to get is: gypsum, calcium chloride, and lactic acid (so substitute for Acid Malt).

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Consider phosphoric acid rather than lactic. Lactic can be detected in the flavor at certain levels. Phosphoric can't.
Utilizing ro water and the the Bru'n Water spreadsheet you can build the water from scratch to get the profile you want. You can download the sheet for free and play with the options.
It works really well and is all I use.

mblanks2 said:

Consider phosphoric acid rather than lactic. Lactic can be detected in the flavor at certain levels. Phosphoric can't.
Utilizing ro water and the the Bru'n Water spreadsheet you can build the water from scratch to get the profile you want. You can download the sheet for free and play with the options.
It works really well and is all I use.

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I just downloaded the sheet and it is completely foreign to me. I have so much to learn.

Refer to https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/water-knowledge

Lots of good information here.

BTW, mabrungard (above) is the guy who wrote Brunwater. He has forgotten more water chemistry than most of us will ever know. Definitely check out the Brew Science forum with questions. Lots of very knowledgeable and helpful people.

BlueHouseBrewhaus said:

BTW, mabrungard (above) is the guy who wrote Brunwater. He has forgotten more water chemistry than most of us will ever know. Definitely check out the Brew Science forum with questions. Lots of very knowledgeable and helpful people.

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Oh wow I didn't realize that, that's awesome! You guys are providing lots of good info.

The "A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer" thread talks about adding three chemicals to RO or distilled water. However, after digging around a bit, there seems to be more chemicals that are typically used to get the water profile one is looking for such as baking soda, epsom salt, and chalk. Are these other chemicals not as important?

Salts, not chemicals. Gypsum and Calcium Chloride are the basics. Gypsum increases sulfates (and calcium) while calcium chloride does exactly what it sounds like. Sulfates increase the perceived bitterness in a beer while chloride does the same for malts. Calcium comes along for the ride with both of these salts and is beneficial for the yeast. There are other salts you can add to your water and they'll all change the flavors in various ways but those 2 are the big ones. Start with them (and an acid of course).

TheHopfather said:

Salts, not chemicals. Gypsum and Calcium Chloride are the basics. Gypsum increases sulfates (and calcium) while calcium chloride does exactly what it sounds like. Sulfates increase the perceived bitterness in a beer while chloride does the same for malts. Calcium comes along for the ride with both of these salts and is beneficial for the yeast. There are other salts you can add to your water and they'll all change the flavors in various ways but those 2 are the big ones. Start with them (and an acid of course).

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Ok, that makes sense. So this is why the primer instructions are called the KISS method.

Well, I just placed my order on gypsum, calcium chloride, and lactic acid (I'll try other types of acids later).

The one other thing you may need if you have soft water or brew with RO and want to do dark beers is something raise your mash pH. I use pickling lime, which you can find at the grocery store or Walmart in the canning/pickling section. Brunwater will let you know if your mash is getting too acidic. Then you can just add some lime in the spreadsheet until the pH looks good. However, unlike the other additions, which go in your water, you add lime to your mash after dough-in and then stir it in.

Or you can mash thinner to bring up the pH if it getting too low with darker grists.

I started playing around with three different water chemistry calculators and I get three different values for resulting ph. I put in the same information in all three. Bru'n Water says 5.2, EZ Water says 5.7, and Brewer's says 5.5 (all three at room temp).

From all that I've read, mash ph needs to be within a strict bound but I find that the outputs of all three calculators seem to be too different for a calculation that need to be as precise as possible.

Anyone else experience this? Or am I doing something wrong?

BlueHouseBrewhaus said:

The one other thing you may need if you have soft water or brew with RO and want to do dark beers is something raise your mash pH. I use pickling lime, which you can find at the grocery store or Walmart in the canning/pickling section. Brunwater will let you know if your mash is getting too acidic. Then you can just add some lime in the spreadsheet until the pH looks good. However, unlike the other additions, which go in your water, you add lime to your mash after dough-in and then stir it in.

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I entered the parameters for an all-grain version of the partial-mash imperial stout I made this summer and indeed, the ph turned out to be too acidic at 4.7. I entered .4g/gallon of pickling lime and it brought the ph up to 5.2.

Gavin C said:

Or you can mash thinner to bring up the pH if it getting too low with darker grists.

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I increased the mash and sparge volumes in Brun Water and the resulting ph doesn't change at all. I even entered a ridiculous mash volume of 100 gallons. That doesn't make sense to me at all. I must be doing something wrong.

edit: oh wait.. when I change the water volumes, the spreadsheet also scales the minerals to keep the same concentrations, hence keeping the ph levels the same.

A pH of 5.2 should be your minimum. I usually shoot for about 5.4. That allows some room for fluctuation.

Thanks! Do you always measure the pH? Or do you just rely on the calculators? I'm actually looking forward to brewing soon! Next weekend for sure.

I usually check my mash pH and also my sparge water pH. Sometimes I skip the pH but I figure that since I have the pH meter I might as well use it. The mash pH is almost always within 0.1 of the Brunwater prediction.

urg8rb8 said:

Thanks! Do you always measure the pH? Or do you just rely on the calculators? I'm actually looking forward to brewing soon! Next weekend for sure.

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I always measure and always have a planned mash pH. Over successive brews you will figure out the accuracy of any predictive software you are using and tweak acid adjustments accordingly.

I also calibrate my meter shortly before measuring mash pH.

gavin c said:

i always measure and always have a planned mash ph. Over successive brews you will figure out the accuracy of any predictive software you are using and tweak acid adjustments accordingly.

I also calibrate my meter shortly before measuring mash ph.

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+1

I'm ready to go!

View attachment 1449291706591.jpg

urg8rb8 said:

I'm ready to go!

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Holy carp!

You've got enough CaCl2 and gypsum to last for years and years there.

Unfortunately CaCl2 is extremely hydrophilic: you should store it (and gypsum although less important) in a very well sealed container to minimize its exposure to any sort of humidity.

As CaCl2 ages it will become less concentrated as it takes on water. Luckily there is an easy way to iron out this wrinkle.

Best of luck with your brewing and water chemistry.

Gavin C said:

Holy carp!

You've got enough CaCl2 and gypsum to last for years and years there.

Unfortunately CaCl2 is extremely hydrophilic: you should store it (and gypsum although less important) in a very well sealed container to minimize its exposure to any sort of humidity.

As CaCl2 ages it will become less concentrated as it takes on water. Luckily there is an easy way to iron out this wrinkle.

Best of luck with your brewing and water chemistry.

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Hahahaa yeah I knew that. Should last like 100 batches or something. . These sizes were only like a dollar more than the much smaller sizes. So what the hell? Besides, I could share it with my brew friends!

Thanks for the link!

urg8rb8 said:

Hahahaa yeah I knew that. Should last like 100 batches or something. . These sizes were only like a dollar more than the much smaller sizes. So what the hell? Besides, I could share it with my brew friends!

Thanks for the link!

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I know the feeling. Why buy a 2oz jar when you can get a pound for a fraction more. Good for you man. Share your mineral resources.

Gavin C said:

I know the feeling. Why buy a 2oz jar when you can get a pound for a fraction more. Good for you man. Share your mineral resources.

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I just looked up the prices again The 1 lb bag was the same price as the 2oz jar. Ha-ha.

Now I'm a bit worried about the hydration of the calcium chloride. I live in a very humid area. Maybe I should dilute the salt in some water

urg8rb8 said:

I just looked up the prices again The 1 lb bag was the same price as the 2oz jar. Ha-ha.

Now I'm a bit worried about the hydration of the calcium chloride. I live in a very humid area. Maybe I should dilute the salt in some water

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Nothing to worry about. Stick it in some sealed jars and use it as needed. Making up a solution of CaCl2 of known concentration will let you be more accurate with your additions.

It is not a big issue at all. When I checked the concentration of mine I found it to remain quite stable over time. Just keep it sealed in jars, not the big plastic bag it comes in and it will be fine. Heck at that price, even if you send up chucking out 80% of it (you won't) you're still up. The stuff is dirt cheap.