How important is tempature during Grain soaking?

On my mini-mash kit, it says to soak grains at 150-155F for 60 minutes.

How accurate do I really need to be? What are the effects of it being too hot and/or too cold??

my understanding is that low temp 150 will give you higher gravity, more alcohol. The higher temp 155-160 will give you more body less alcohol. But the experts should comment. I think for partial mash anywhere in that range would be ok.

IMO, you want to be on the upper end of that temperature range (158F). The extract is already providing a significant amount of the fermentables; you're doing the mini mash to give back the malt profile and mouthfeel. It really depends on what you're trying to get from the mash.

If the grains included were crystal or dark malts, simply steeping them ~155F will be best.

If the grainbill includes some kind of base grains, it's a true mini mash and you should keep the mash between 150-158F. If it doesn't have base grains, it's really an extract + steeping grains kit.

jesserc said:

my understanding is that low temp 150 will give you higher gravity, more alcohol. The higher temp 155-160 will give you more body less alcohol. But the experts should comment. I think for partial mash anywhere in that range would be ok.

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Lower temperature will provide a more fermentable wort while higher temp will provide a less fermentable wort (lower FG).

It has nothing to do with higher gravity.

it includes base

would anything bad happen if I accidently let it dip below 150 or went above 160?

sorry , you right pseudo , i was thinking a lower temp would give you a higher OG, but I guess that wouldnt be the case.

There are two enzymes that act on the starches in the grain. One chops starches in half, one cuts sugars off the ends of the starch chain.

152 is supposed to be the sweet spot, it is the temp that both enzymes will work at. Neither will work the best at that temp, but both will work.

I don't have the book in front of me, so the names of the enzymes and which does which I can't give you.

Alpha amylase and Beta-amylase

Alpha chops in half and Beta cuts off the ends.

If you are a degree or two out of range it won't be the end of the world. You should still end up with a good beer, it just may change the characteristics a bit.

If I were you I would make sure I had a good thermometer and a decent understanding of the process by reading chapters on mini- (or Partial) mashing. There are chemical reactions that depend on the temperature range. Drifting a little outside optimal range is not ideal but survivable because beer is pretty forgiving but if you drift too far this can have significant effect on the finished product. For instance, if you go over 170, the enzymes will stop the conversion process.

ok, so if it goes above 170, and stops...... can I bring it back down to the 150 range and it starts back up again?

No. If you reach 170, the enzymes that convert the starches to sugar are are "dead".

oh really.....ouch.

So dipping under 150 is not the problem, its being over 170.

ApolloSpeed said:

oh really.....ouch.

So dipping under 150 is not the problem, its being over 170.

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Is this "ouch" as in I'd better be careful when I do this? - or "Ouch" as in I should have been more careful when I did this?

Temp is not the only issue in mashing. PH of the water is also of concern. This is self-regulated to a large degree by mashing your grains with the proper amount of water. 1Q / lb up to 1.5Q / lb should enable the base malts to lower the Ph of the water to 5.2 - 5.8. If you have too much water the grain will have lesser effect on the ph.

Its all about giving those enzymes the best environment in which to work.

Here's the good news. Because this is a partial mash with extract and some specialty grains as well as those base malts chances are you'll get a finished product that tastes better than just about anything on store shelves no matter what you do. So as they say relax, dont worry.

ApolloSpeed said:

On my mini-mash kit, it says to soak grains at 150-155F for 60 minutes.

How accurate do I really need to be? What are the effects of it being too hot and/or too cold??

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Its really not that difficult to keep a mash within the 148-158 range for 45-60 minutes. If you are mashing in a kettle after hitting the temp take it off the heat and wrap it up in some heavy towels, check the temp after a few minutes, stirring while holding the thermometer, add boiling or cold water to adjust.

There are a bunch of mash calculators that will get you in the proper range. I use this one with great success:
http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml

If you do hit 170F all is not lost, certainly not all the enzymes will be denatured instantly.

another excellent thread that has answered questions i had not thought to ask......YET.

i was thinking for stabilization sake, an oven set @ ~170 (use calculator, my grains are in the freezer @ 0* f right now) add grains, stir, put back in oven that is now shut off.... leave in for an hour.... sparge in pot on top of stove thats @ 175.

should work, no?

nosmatt said:

another excellent thread that has answered questions i had not thought to ask......YET.

i was thinking for stabilization sake, an oven set @ ~170 (use calculator, my grains are in the freezer @ 0* f right now) add grains, stir, put back in oven that is now shut off.... leave in for an hour.... sparge in pot on top of stove thats @ 175.

should work, no?

Click to expand...

I used to do mini-mashes with something similar to this method. I'd preheat the oven to its lowest setting (170 on mine), then shut it off. I'd heat my water on the stovetop to the proper strike temperature to get the mash to around 155F, add grain, and then toss it in the warm-but-not-on oven. It would hold steady for the hour or so I needed for the mini-mash. If you're storing your grains in the freezer, you really need to use a calculator or other tool to get to the right water temperature. Do not accept the defaults from anywhere, as most calculators assume room temperature grain.

+1 on what JDS says both about turning the oven off and the temp o the grains. 170 is too close to the limit to toy with. The ideal range is 152 - 154 with the outside limits for conversion at 148 - 158. An oven at 170 will contine to raise the temp of the mash over the course of the hour. I've seen people use an oven set at 150. This would work but I have owned even Viking ovens that would have trouble staying put at that temp.

175 may also be too hot to sparge with because if your grain bed hits that temp tannins will start to leach out of the husks. This depends on the quantity of sparge water. A hot bed of grains will only drop the sparge water a few degrees. I do all grain but after mashout I sparge at 168. This seems to be a pretty common sparge temp that I have seen for mini mash.

Edit: Should have mentioned this thread before: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-partial-mash-brewing-pics-75231/ It is all you need to know about mini mash.

dontman,
have read that thread numerous times, it is excellent....and why i am jumping in.

the strike temp will be determined by using a calculator... i have the link saved at work, need to email it home....


good info on the sparge temp. i will shoot lower.

fwiw, i have a stupidly expense kitchen aid range that i question it's temps often, however the little metal internal $15.00 thermo i bought seems to agree with the readout...im afraid however, if i check often, it will cool down the oven too much.... and my oven evacuates untill it hits room temp when off, not sure how to get around that yet.