Joe's Ancient Orange Mead

jiMithing83 said:

This is the principle upon which the Galileo thermometer works. The problem is, as with the thermometer, the temperature of your mead will affect the accuracy of the balls. Just like your run of the mill hydrometer, if it's not at the calibration temperature, the readings will be off.

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within the normal lager-ale fermentation temperature the density of water does not change much with temperature - it drops about 0.4% from 5C to 30C.

You need to correct for thermal expansion when temperature is high - like well above >100F, below 80F it's fairly flat.

55x11 said:

really? Has the fruit dropped?

This thread makes me wonder - the fruit drops as the alcohol level rises and overall density of fluid (specific gravity) drops. One could design some easily sanitizable, floating marbles of some sort, with densities/specific gravities, of say. 1.010, 1.015, 1020 etc.

Then you wouldn't need to take the sample out of the carboy at all and use hydrometer - just watch the marbles float at the top, and as they sink one by one, you would know the density dropped below that level. Should be easy enough to do, it's basically like little hydrometers with different specific gravities. How come nobody makes those?

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It stopped fermenting several weeks ago... I didn't use any orange, only raisins... about half of them are still floating.

organ said:

It stopped fermenting several weeks ago... I didn't use any orange, only raisins... about half of them are still floating.

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how do you know it stopped fermenting?

55x11 said:

how do you know it stopped fermenting?

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No activity in the air lock...

Holey floating crud!! Ok, if you have a lot of yeast sediment in your secondary, probably do not try to bottle from that fermenter.

Half way through the gallon and the bottle slipped on counter as I tried to tilt it a little. That one slosh and whooooosh all the yeast resuspended all over.

GAH! First time had that much sediment because I had to rack to secondary to free up my 1.25gal fermenters. Sigh.

organ said:

No activity in the air lock...

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because it ferments very slowly (at least in my limited experience), you may not see much activity in airlock anyways.

Did you try to measure gravity?

55x11 said:

within the normal lager-ale fermentation temperature the density of water does not change much with temperature - it drops about 0.4% from 5C to 30C.

You need to correct for thermal expansion when temperature is high - like well above >100F, below 80F it's fairly flat.

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Interesting. In that case, I don't see why it wouldn't work if you can find (or make) the indicators.

Cheesy_Goodness said:

Anyone try using a straight up Habanero in this? We managed to get a grand total of 1 (1!) pepper this year so in a misguided effort to save my pride I'm thinking about throwing it in a batch of JAOM for fun.

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I threw this mess together yesterday. Will be updating how it goes.
I'm (EDIT) not (/EDIT) expecting a very noticeable difference in this batch. The pepper was super small and I decided against keeping the seeds in.

Time will tell.

Cheesy_Goodness said:

I threw this mess together yesterday. Will be updating how it goes.
I'm expecting a very noticeable difference in this batch. The pepper was super small and I decided against keeping the seeds in.

Time will tell.

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Well, mine is just over a week into fermentation. If it's any good then we should compare notes.

Does my JAOM have mold growing in the neck of my carboy or was this just some yeast that never made it into the must? Everything was properly sanitized with Star San. As of today, this has been fermenting away for 36 days (I started it on July 28th).

Looks like you may have a S.T.D.

TandemTails said:

Does my JAOM have mold growing in the neck of my carboy or was this just some yeast that never made it into the must? Everything was properly sanitized with Star San. As of today, this has been fermenting away for 36 days (I started it on July 28th).

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looks suspicious. Is it on the mead surface? did you shake it well before fermentation started?
Can you try to carefully wipe and then maybe clean it with star-san soaked tissue?

55x11 said:

looks suspicious. Is it on the mead surface? did you shake it well before fermentation started?
Can you try to carefully wipe and then maybe clean it with star-san soaked tissue?

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It doesn't appear to be in any of the mead, just around the neck. I'll try wiping it with some sanitized paper towels and hope for the best.

Yeah, I shook the heck out of it per the instructions. I was really hoping this might have been a few little pieces of bread yeast that didn't get incorporated and started growing on the neck, but it doesn't look promising.

After a month of fermentation the alcohol content should be high enough to keep mold off the mead. There was probably some diluted honey on the neck surface that allowed the mold to start. But it should not affect the mead at all.

TandemTails said:

Does my JAOM have mold growing in the neck of my carboy or was this just some yeast that never made it into the must? Everything was properly sanitized with Star San. As of today, this has been fermenting away for 36 days (I started it on July 28th).

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IMO I would leave it be since the environment is alcohol and CO2. You got signs of a good krusen so put it away and worry less.

I just sanitized a paper towel, wiped down the inside of the neck and then sprayed more starsan on the inside as a secondary measure. Hopefully I won't see the white spots resurface

It's yeast from when you sprinkled the dry yeast in. Happens all the time.

Just picked up some 5l glass jugs with bung and airlocks. Would like to try this soon. I tried to skim thru and see if there were any other suggestions for a substitute for the bread yeast. Is that what most of you are doing? Are there any other readily available dry yeasts that would help make this a little less sweet? I'm not sure I want to make a trip back to the brew store for $7 Wyeast/White Labs.

If you don't use bread yeast (which you should) I would recommend 71B dry yeast

heckofagator said:

Just picked up some 5l glass jugs with bung and airlocks. Would like to try this soon. I tried to skim thru and see if there were any other suggestions for a substitute for the bread yeast. Is that what most of you are doing? Are there any other readily available dry yeasts that would help make this a little less sweet? I'm not sure I want to make a trip back to the brew store for $7 Wyeast/White Labs.

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Less sweet? There is this and there is full blown 3yr with back sweetening mead. I love this. It isn't "sweet" as in honey at all. It is very nice. Try it at least once and taste it in about 3-4 months in bottle.

And...NO...there is NO other yeast for a JOAM. Just saying.

heckofagator said:

Just picked up some 5l glass jugs with bung and airlocks. Would like to try this soon. I tried to skim thru and see if there were any other suggestions for a substitute for the bread yeast. Is that what most of you are doing? Are there any other readily available dry yeasts that would help make this a little less sweet? I'm not sure I want to make a trip back to the brew store for $7 Wyeast/White Labs.

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Next, I want to know where you got 5l glass bottles?!?!?

sablesurfer said:

Less sweet? There is this and there is full blown 3yr with back sweetening mead. I love this. It isn't "sweet" as in honey at all. It is very nice. Try it at least once and taste it in about 3-4 months in bottle.

And...NO...there is NO other yeast for a JOAM. Just saying.

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Bread yeast it is then...I thought I remembered reading that the bread yeast wasn't perhaps as strong as it needed to be to get the mead a little dryer and less sweet. I'm just paraphrasing and could be totally wrong. I'll try as is for my first time.

sablesurfer said:

Next, I want to know where you got 5l glass bottles?!?!?

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They're from a local brew supply store Avid Brewing. I originally came home with the 1g amber jugs, but really wanted that extra space, so I gave up the darker glass. I do like the swing top, though!

This recipe is probably about the only time you'll want to use bread yeast outside of bread. Don't feel like you can't experiment with others, but Joe really got it right with this thing.

Just bottled my first JAOM. Starting gravity of 1.133, final gravity of 1.030.

Very sweet, but it will mellow a bit with age, right?

Requiemm said:

Just bottled my first JAOM. Starting gravity of 1.133, final gravity of 1.030.

Very sweet, but it will mellow a bit with age, right?

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This will be a sweet mead. This is not going to make a sessionable mowing mead. It will be big on alcohol heat and it should have bit/bitterness from the oranges. There is a lot more sugar left in this version compared to a mead with a regularly accepted yeast.

Not sure I would say the sweetness is going to mellow. The flavors will blend better, but I expect my JOAM's to always stay very big on mouth feel and stay as sippers.

heckofagator said:

Just picked up some 5l glass jugs with bung and airlocks. Would like to try this soon. I tried to skim thru and see if there were any other suggestions for a substitute for the bread yeast. Is that what most of you are doing? Are there any other readily available dry yeasts that would help make this a little less sweet? I'm not sure I want to make a trip back to the brew store for $7 Wyeast/White Labs.

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I know it's blasphemy here, but I like Nottingham dry yeast in this. Just keep the ferm temps in the high 60sF.

brewski09 said:

I know it's blasphemy here, but I like Nottingham dry yeast in this. Just keep the ferm temps in the high 60sF.

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GASP! <swoon>

Going on three months(on October 4th...) and still hasn't cleared... still a few raisins floating, no activity in air lock.

What has the temp been? I keep mine in the low 70's and never had an issue with it clearing.

Okay I have had my JAMO for about 5 weeks now in the ferm chamber at 66 and I am wonder if I should raise the temp to the low 70's thinking of placing it inside the cabinet inside the house I have been monitoring the temp in the ideal cabinet and its about 72-74. Do you think that its to warm, or should I just let it ride in the ferm chamber for a little longer. Oh and none of the fruit has dropped but the airlock is still active.

It's likely at this point your airlock activity is just CO2 coming out of solution or small amounts of fruit continuing to ferment. Sometimes the fruit never drops. I say move it and get that ferm chamber back in action.

hanks for the recipe. But shouldn't I bring water to boil and add the yeast and the spices while it is boil so the mead won't get infected?

yuval12321 said:

hanks for the recipe. But shouldn't I bring water to boil and add the yeast and the spices while it is boil so the mead won't get infected?

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I assume you miss spoke but do not boil yeast, it kills the little buggers and their screams are horrible.

Cloves being dry and having anti-bacterial properties, the chance of infection is very low if just pitched directly.

rlmiller10 said:

I assume you miss spoke but do not boil yeast, it kills the little buggers and their screams are horrible.

Cloves being dry and having anti-bacterial properties, the chance of infection is very low if just pitched directly.

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I especially aimed for the orange and raisins when I wrote "spices". (accidently I wrote also yeast)
Orange spoils in 4 days, so won't it spoil the mead if you don't boil it? (I want a secondary fermentation of 4 months, 6 months in total)
and in what temperature should I dissolve the honey so all the aromas will keep?
Oh, and I don't have yeast nutrient, is it important? (I'm going to use some cider/wine yeast I got from the brewing store, they recommended that for mead)

Trust the process. Others have done this for many years without issue. I recommend going back to the original post, and do it that way the first time if you want JAOM, which your LHBS may or may not be aware of. Tweak what you want from there, but then it is no longer JAOM, then it's your mead. :rockin:

yuval12321 said:

I especially aimed for the orange and raisins when I wrote "spices". (accidently I wrote also yeast)
Orange spoils in 4 days, so won't it spoil the mead if you don't boil it? (I want a secondary fermentation of 4 months, 6 months in total)
and in what temperature should I dissolve the honey so all the aromas will keep?
Oh, and I don't have yeast nutrient, is it important? (I'm going to use some cider/wine yeast I got from the brewing store, they recommended that for mead)

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You are not following the recipe. This is not something brand new, it works now just follow it and don't complicate it.

The oranges won't spoil.

Just follow the recipe and you'll get yourself a mead. This one takes a long time to mellow. Second batch in the bottles this past 9+ months. Going to wait till December to taste one.

Ok, I'll follow the recipe. I bought all the ingredients, but there are no good oranges in the market, it's not the season yet. I have 2 options - use green orange (it should become more yellow in few days) which is not a tasty one, or use an orange orange that was stored in freezer from last winter, which is usually used for making orange juice, but it's zest doesn't look nice, so I think it would be better to boil it before using. What do you think is better?

yuval12321 said:

Ok, I'll follow the recipe. I bought all the ingredients, but there are no good oranges in the market, it's not the season yet. I have 2 options - use green orange (it should become more yellow in few days) which is not a tasty one, or use an orange orange that was stored in freezer from last winter, which is usually used for making orange juice, but it's zest doesn't look nice, so I think it would be better to boil it before using. What do you think is better?

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No boiling involved in JAOM making. I'd use an orange exactly as the recipe describes.

Never heard of anyone freezing an orange before. They are common as muck in the stores here. Where are you located that you have to freeze your fruits. Must be somewhere interesting.

Gavin C said:

No boiling involved in JAOM making. I'd use an orange exactly as the recipe describes.

Never heard of anyone freezing an orange before. They are common as muck in the stores here. Where are you located that you have to freeze your fruits. Must be somewhere interesting.

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I'm from Israel, it wasn't me who stored the oranges in freezer, I got it from a orange juice seller in a market, he bought lots of oranges in the end of the last winter and stored it in freezer to keep selling orange juice during the summer. But it looks like the oranges he has were thawed before some days, so I afraid more bacteria populate it, so couldn't it infect the mead? I suppose that usually people use fresh oranges so it doesn't infect it. I still have the option to use a green orange (it should become yellow in few days), it is fresh but isn't tasty, the farmers produce it artificially somehow because it's not the season yet.
I'm a homebrewer of beer, and I would never add orange or any fruit to the fermentation without sanitizing it by boiling. isn't it likewise in mead brewing?