Herb Information

Hello, I read that some herbs you want to steep (hearty herbs) and others you should add to the secondary (delicate flower's), that being said, I decided to do a test.

So I did a steeping taste test yesterday with mugwort, yarrow, sweet gale, and rosemary, I measured out the herbs to the equivalent of what would be 1oz each herb per 5 gal of brew except for the rosemary (4 pieces only about 1/10th of an oz for 5 gal) put each herb in a separate cup, brought water to rolling boil, pored water onto herbs, steeped each herb for 3 min, strained herbs out, then tasted each, then tasted each at 4 and 5 min, then mixed each with an other one and tasted.

What we figured out was mugwort and sweet gale are good even after 5 min, but the longer the yarrow (taste good at 3 min) was in the hot water after 3 min the more bitter/astringent it became, the rosemary was just kinda nasty (for the lack of a better word) every time we tasted it, so no rosemary in my brews from now on.

Then I steeped mugwort, yarrow and sweet gale together for 3 min and strained into a cold glass, dropping the temp to 82 deg. and its taste was very good, and at 4 and 5 min the taste stay'd the same, so we let it sit for 10 min, same taste.

What I got out of this test is, not to add my herbs to the hot wort, 1 or 2 min of heat can make a big difference in taste/bitterness on some of these herbs, I will be brewing a herb ale today, using what I have learned from this test, I will be steeping my herbs, then adding that herb tea/extract to my cooled wort.

Just thought I would share what I learned yesterday, I think the steeping method would work for a secondary addition too, I thought this information might help someone out, as herb information seems to be kinda hard to come by.

Please post any knowledge/information you have about using herbs in brews.

Ill try to remember to post how this brew comes out in about 6 to 8 weeks

Cheers

Cool that you're actually doing the experiment, rather than just parroting what you've heard from someone who knows someone who's friend's cousin read a book (that happens from time to time here). Bear in mind that herbs are not sanitary, generally speaking. Boiling will sanitize them, but as you said, may change the flavor. Without further data, I would have assume they are a possible source of infection. And though infection from dry hopping, for example, is virtually unheard of, certainly not all herbs are created equal.

So my inclination would be to steep them in vodka at room temperature for couple of days. I think except for actually brewing beers with them, it would be difficult to compare vodka-steeped herbs with their water-steeped counterparts due to the strong flavor and aroma of the alcohol.

Some good information there! I may attempt another herb beer eventually, although my last attempt went pretty badly...

That's a really good experiment, and you're totally right on yarrow becoming more bitter the longer it steeps. However, if you're going to use these completely in place of hops, generally you want some as a bittering/cleansing agent. I've done three gruits and have learned by now that a modest amount at the beginning of the boil is good, then the rest at flameout and/or in secondary. If you have fresh yarrow flowers or fresh material from any of the other beers just know that a little goes a long way in late additions.

This is just my experience though, and if you want to try it without boiling any of them, go for it! Look forward to hearing out it went.

Hmm. I just recently started looking into using herbs instead of hops since my wife has a food sensitivity (not allergy) to hops. It looks like these herbs would be great flavor enhancers, but can they be used to replace hops?

looneybomber said:

Hmm. I just recently started looking into using herbs instead of hops since my wife has a food sensitivity (not allergy) to hops. It looks like these herbs would be great flavor enhancers, but can they be used to replace hops?

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Some of them can. The end result doesn't taste exactly like what most people consider beer in my opinion, but if done right (moderation, balance) it can be really nice. Yarrow used to be used for the same purpose hops are used. It is antiseptic, antibacterial yadda yadda...

If you only use it as a bittering agent and don't use too much of it, the flavor won't come through all that much and it will be closer to a modern beer. If you and/or your wife enjoy the taste and scent of it, though, it can also be used at flameout or as a "dry herb" stage. I don't have experience with mugwort, but sweet gale can also be a nice addition in small quantities.

Hello Everyone,

Just finished brewing, the flavor of the wort is excellent, I used 1/2 oz mugwort, 1/4 oz yarrow, and a bit less than 2 grams of sweet gale (thats what was left after the steeping experiment), steeped them for the 3 min in 32 oz of water (was at a boil when I pored over the herbs) then strained right into the 81 deg wort smelled great, taste great too.

The Aroma and flavor of the herbs are mild in the wort so far, as the brew progresses I will post the results.

Thanks for the supporting words.

Please keep the information coming, every bit, helps someone out.

ChessRockwell can you post what went wrong? or every step of that brewing process.

I boiled herbs way to long (uneducated on my behalf) in a batch and had to dump it, Im guessing here, but Im thinking that 15 min would be about max for me to boil any of em.

Cheers

WileECoyote said:

ChessRockwell can you post what went wrong? or every step of that brewing process.

I boiled herbs way to long (uneducated on my behalf) in a batch and had to dump it, Im guessing here, but Im thinking that 15 min would be about max for me to boil any of em

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Here's the thread where I posted about it, wasn't my thread to start but I kinda hijacked it a little...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/sassafras-root-secondary-307670/

Anyway the only thing I boiled more than 20 minutes was 1/2oz mugwort (60min). Then I threw in a little sarsaparilla at 20 minutes and flameout, some licorice root at 10 and 20 minutes.

How would you describe the taste of your batch you dumped and what herbs did you have in that one?

ChessRockwell said:

How would you describe the taste of your batch you dumped and what herbs did you have in that one?

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Hello ChessRockwell, The taste was very sour/astringent/bitter and I mean very on all 3 taste, I used 1oz mugwort, 1oz yarrow, 1/8th oz rosemary in that batch, to much of each IMO after doing my test, and I added all 3 at 60 min to go, (way to long in the boil IMO) I did this after looking up some gruit recipes and somewhat assuming that they would work just like hops, (they don't) at least the times to extract the herb flavor/aroma/bitterness are very different then hop extraction times.

Everyone, Please post your experience with using herbs here, amounts/when added/results, good or bad your experience/information will help someone out.

Cheers

WileECoyote said:

The taste was very sour/astringent/bitter and I mean very on all 3 taste

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Yes that sounds pretty similar to how I'd describe mine! I'm glad you started this thread, actual experiences on these herbal brews are kinda few and far between, and many of them never follow up with how it turned out.

It seems like the major culprit to the nasty sour/astringent flavor is probably the mugwort, as that's the only common ingredient between our two failures. I wouldn't call mine overly bitter, so maybe some of that came from the yarrow.

I'd really like to give my rootbeer stout another shot, maybe with your steeping idea I could have a better chance at ending up with something I don't have to pour out! Anyone have any experience with sarsaparilla / sassafras ?

I've had really good luck with yarrow but I do love that plant, so I may be biased Still, I don't think the right quantity in to boil the whole time makes it overly bitter/astringent, but it can certainly happen if you overdo it. I haven't gotten sour in any of my gruits. Only steeping for a short amount of time does sound like an interesting experiment though. I wonder if you'll get any bitterness to balance the malt. Looking forward to hearing about it!

lowtones84 said:

I've had really good luck with yarrow but I do love that plant, so I may be biased Still, I don't think the right quantity in to boil the whole time makes it overly bitter/astringent, but it can certainly happen if you overdo it. I haven't gotten sour in any of my gruits. Only steeping for a short amount of time does sound like an interesting experiment though. I wonder if you'll get any bitterness to balance the malt. Looking forward to hearing about it!

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Hello lowtones, Could you please post how much yarrow and when you add it, and any other information you have learned about using herbs

Thanks
Cheers

My only experience was one batch of wee heavy with heather tips ("Wee Heather" I called it). I too did a steeping test prior to brewing, and it seemed to need a little time to bring out the flavor. I added 2 oz. to the boil at the 15 minute mark. This was in addition to a normal hopping. The flavor is floral and very subtle, which works well with a low-hopped beer like Scottish.

Cheers!

Thanks for the post frazier, its great to hear something about heather tips, especially with amounts, times, flavor, and how it went with the brew.

Great Post!

Cheers

I'm still experimenting, but here's what I've found. 2 oz. of yarrow (1.2 oz. of it was fresh) in a 6 gallon batch is a little too much. I also had around an oz. of sage (half of it fresh), 4 grams of marsh rosemary and a couple of pinches of sweet gale in this last 6 gallon batch. None of that is including the "dry herbing" done later.

Yarrow- 20 g first wort "hop", 16 g @ 60, 24 g @ flame out.
Sage- .5 oz FWH, .58 oz. (fresh) @ flame out.
Marsh Rosemary- 2 g @ FWH, 2 g @ flame out.
Sweet Gale- A pinch @ FWH, a pinch @ flame out.

I used mostly dry yarrow for the 60 minute addition but there were some fresh flowers and foliage/stem at every step of the way. Part of the problem is guesswork. I wanted around 1.5 oz. yarrow total, but if you're using fresh herbs you're supposed to double the amount because of water weight. The problem is that the effect of fresh yarrow vs. dry on aroma and flavor is -much- greater than anticipated, and all of this herby goodness kind of dominates. I would scale back all of the amounts of yarrow in this recipe by probably not quite half next time but leave the others where they're at. The other 3 gallon batches of gruit I've done used proportionally the same amount but all of the ingredients were dry. After a month or so in the bottles it was delicious, and quite a few friends agreed with me.

For "dry herbing" on this last 6 gallon batch I used:

1.3 oz. yarrow, all fresh. Mostly flowers.
3.6 g sage
2 pinches of sweet gale

I put half of each in a muslin bag with sanitized marbles to help it sink, the other half stayed floating on top. Left it for a week before bottling. This batch is still -very- young for the style, but it's actually coming along nicely. Just a touch too bitter and the herbal/flowery nose is still a little strong, but I think in a couple of weeks to a month it will be great. I also used a bunch of raw honey that never saw a boil, and that comes through a bit as well. If anyone else wants the rest of the recipe just ask.

Hello lowtones, Thank You for the wonderful post with so much information, Yes I would love to see the rest of your recipe, Im still experimenting too, is FWH = to @ 60 min ?, sorry for the noob question, guess I should look that up.

I can see how fresh herbs vs. dry would make a significant difference in how strong the herbs would come through, definitely something to consider when herb brewing, thats more Great information by the way.

I also used honey in my herb brew and 1 heaping tbs sweet orange peels, 2 Lbs honey @ flameout, Im hoping to get quite a bit of honey and just a bit of orange flavor/aroma in the finished brew, with a very light herb aroma/taste to it.

Im think Im going to let this one finnish out the way it is (depending on taste at 1 month in fermenters) if its way to sweet or no herb aroma/flavor then I will add some more steeped herb tea/extract to the mix before bottling to desired taste.

Thank You again for your post, I cant wait to hear how it finishes out with your herb additions.

Cheers

Anyone else have any herb brewing experience/information ?

Update,

The steeped herb brew is 2 weeks old today, I just transferred it to secondary and took a hydrometer reading and its at 1.012 @ 70deg, OG was 1.070 @ 81deg, then tasted the sample, like always, and to my surprise it was actually pretty good, even being only 2 weeks old, it was herby but not bad at all, slight bitter taste, and just a slight green taste to it, all in all I am very pleased with it, cant wait to bottle it in 2 weeks.

Since this is a honey brew, Im thinking about using honey as priming sugar, what do you think?

Cheers

Hello, I was going to bottle my amber wheat steeped herb brew yesterday but ran out of time so instead I took a hydrometer reading, it was at 1.010, thats down from 1.070, the brew was a little watery, and very light on color, guess it went a bit to far, and it has a bitter taste almost like fresh squeezed lemonade before you add any sweetener, in fact it taste just like you added a bunch of fresh squeezed lemons to a honey orange beer, (kinda disappointing).

What I have learned from this steeped herb brew is, on the next batch I need to cut down even further on my herbs, (used 1/2oz mugwort, 1/4oz Yarrow steeped 3 min then dumped into 80 deg wort) and maybe even watch the hydrometer readings close enough to bottle it somewhere near 1.013 or 1.014 to retain some sweetness of the wort and not let it finnish to far, then check carbonation daily, and as soon as it is carb'd cold crash it to stop the yeasties from continuing fermentation.

but my question is, if I were to cold crash, would the brew finnish, age and meld the flavors? or dose a brew need the yeast alive to accomplish that?

Thanks

If you don't want it that dry I would recommend either mashing at high temperatures or adding unfermentable sugars rather than stopping fermentation. That just seems kind of risky to me even if you cold crash it.

update, the sour lemon taste is in every brew, so I dont think it from the herbs, Im thinking infection.