Dead Yeast Starter?

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NWMushroom

NWMushroom

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I got a 2 liter starting going yesterday using a Wyeast 1056 smack pack. Five hours after smacking, the pack hadn't inflated so when I pitched the yeast into the starter I took a gravity reading (1.040).

The yeast starter has been on a stirplate now for 24 hours. I took another gravity reading and it's still at 1.040.

Does this mean the yeast is dead, or should I take it off the stirplate and monitor for krausen / give the yeast longer to get to work?

The only explanation I can think of for the lack of activity besides the yeast being dead is that they're still in the reproduction phase.

Advice would be gratefully received.
 
Leave it alone for another 1-2 days and see what pops. Could be an older packet or stressed yeast. Usually they will get going at some point.
 
Do you think I should I keep it on the starter and take another hydro reading tomorrow, or leave it off so I can monitor krausen?

It was an older packet, hence the 2 liter starter rather than my normal 1 liter. The production date was July 26.
 
If I say anything but let it sit 72hrs then I will have Revvy writing his response for half the night, telling me that it will still work. Here is my opinion on this, it might not be dead but it is definitely less than ideal, wait 72hrs before calling the coroner.

So if something starts happening if a few hrs time it is going to work and there will be yeast created how many you have is unknown. If it does start making yeast I would be tempted to crash cool, decant and add 2L back again and get a really strong starter before pitching.

I would leave it on the stir plate, you will see a krasuen on the stir plate and you will see the color change to a milky version of what it was when it started. If you stop the stir plate for an hour or so you should see the white cells collect at the bottom and start forming a cake. The size of this cake (subtracting the trub) is an indication of how much yeast you made.

Clem
 
Clementine said:
I would leave it on the stir plate, you will see a krasuen on the stir plate and you will see the color change to a milky version of what it was when it started.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input. Interestingly, I have never noticed krausen when using a stirplate - I always assumed the vortex prevented this from being visible.
 
I made a starter on Thursday (last week) with a Wyeast pack (1768-PC) with about the same OG and it was finished within 24 hours on the stir plate (I pitched it in Friday evening). Within 4 hours it had foam on top of the starter (around when I went to bed). By the following morning, the krausen had peaked and already declined. The starter color had also significantly changed (indicating the yeast was REALLY working)...

IME, starters on stir plates are typically done, or damned close to it, within about 24 hours. With you getting zero activity, and no reaction from popping the nutrient packet, I'd say the yeast is a dud... While it won't hurt to give it more time, I would make plans to get another yeast packet to use in another starter. I would also explain to the LHBS that the yeast pack didn't swell (at all) in ~5 hours of sitting around (mine had swelled slightly within an hour or so of popping the nutrient pack). Also mention that on a stir plate, the SG wasn't changing at all.

If you got this via online/mail order, contact the vendor. See what they can do for you.

How much of a vortex do you have in the starter??
 
NWMushroom said:
Thanks for the input. Interestingly, I have never noticed krausen when using a stirplate - I always assumed the vortex prevented this from being visible.
Click to expand...

Do you add fermcap? Most of the krausen from my starters will almost push the foam stopper out of my flask...

I know fermcap is the answer to my problem, I just never remember to buy any.

:tank:
 
I have fermcap on hand, but I still don't use it in my starters. I made a 2.75L starter in a 3L flask (for the last brew) and didn't have need for fermcap. I do cook the starter in a pot, so there's zero fear of foam hitting the ceiling. I also don't use a stopper (right now) opting for sanitized aluminum foil.

As much as I liked using fermcap in batches where I was very close to the capacity of my fermenter, I'm doing what I can to make sure I don't NEED to use it. I did use some in the current batch, since it was about 6 gallons in a 6.6 gallon fermenter. Next batch goes into one of my 7.75 gallon fermenters, so I won't need any then. :rockin:
 
Clementine said:
If I say anything but let it sit 72hrs then I will have Revvy writing his response for half the night, telling me that it will still work. Here is my opinion on this, it might not be dead but it is definitely less than ideal, wait 72hrs before calling the coroner.
Clem
Click to expand...

If you're going to refer to me, then you might want to get the context to which I say something right. ;)

I've NEVER talked about 72 hours where making a starters are concerned.

What I HAVE said about starters is this;

Revvy said:
Activity in a starter really only means one thing and one thing only.

It doesn't matter one blip in your fermenter or your starter flask if the airlock bubbles or not (if you are using an airlock and not tinfoil if you are using tinfoil, you aren't getting bibbling anyway,) or if you see a krauzen. In fact starter fermentation are some of the fastest or slowest but most importantly, the most boring fermentations out there. Usually it's done withing a few hours of yeast pitch...usually overnight when we are sleeping, and the starter looks like nothing ever happened...except for the little band at the bottom. Or it can take awhile...but either way there's often no "activity" whatsoever....

I usually run my stirplate for the first 24 hours, then shut it down, if you are spinning your starter it is really hard to get a krausen to form anyway, since it's all spinning, and there's often a head of foam on it from the movement.


All that really matters is that creamy band o yeast at the bottom.


rsz_yeast_starter_chilled_001.jpg


This is a chilled sample so it's flocculated, but even with an unchilled sample you should see a band of yeast at the bottom. Here's an unchilled version

starter.jpg


Same thing, a band.

As it is I've only ever seen two or three krausens actually on my starter (one blew off a bunch of krausen and knocked the tinfoil off the flask,) and the evidence of one on the flask at the "waterline" once. But I've never not had a starter take off.

Look for the yeast at the bottom, don't worry what it looks like on top.

If you have yeast on the bottom....that's all you really need.

If it looks anything like that, your are ready to either feed it again, or use it.
Click to expand...

You can't gauge starter activity with your stirplate kicking stuff up. Most krausens can't form on a rollercoaster ride.
 
Arh! Blast, I got it wrong, my apologies for misquoting you. The last thing I would want to do is offend. I respect your council and my reference to you was only meant as a sign of respect. That said on the fermentation (main not starter) I will debate the 72 lag is OK issue... some day over a few home brews.

Clem
 
With healthy yeast and an appropriately made starter, you should have seen a drop within 24 hours. My guess is the yeast is either unhealthy or dead. I would let it go a day or two longer to see what happens. If you see activity, I would chill, decant and then make another starter to make sure you have a high enough cell count for pitching.
 
I regularly see stir plate starter with krausen on top. Some of the foam up a bit but a true krausen is not evedent others get a krausen on top of that roller coaster. That said my starters are brewed from slants and are very active more so that when i used white labs but that was a while ago. With this starter being less than ideal i would not think you will see much of a krausen or much of anything on this one.
Clem
 

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