can't figure out why mash PH is so low...

I just bough a ph-meter and used it for the first time on an IPA I brewed yesterday.

So far I'd been using EZ water and trusted it without being able to check.

Recipe is 15L batch; I BIAB with sparge and top up water so mash water is 12L
2,6kg of 2-Row
340g of Caragold (About 50 Lov)

Water specs Ca 43, Mg 12, Sulfate 12, BIcarbonate 167

I Added 1,8ml lactic acid (I usually weigh it out with 1ml=1g); 3,5g Gypsum and 2g calcium chloride.

EZ and Brunwater both give an estimated Mash ph of 5,4

I measured after 20mins and again after 45mins and my Mash ph was 5,15 - 5,20. I calibrated the meter well and measured at room temp.

I remember that when first doing water additions (About ten batches ago) a friend brought his ph meter and if I remember correctly the ph was also about 5,2 when it should have been 5,4.

Have no clue why... help pls.

Well, the density of 88% lactic is 1.21 g/ml. If you were assuming 1 g/ml, that should have resulted in you actually adding 1.48 ml which is less than the intended amount. So that assumption should have been safe and the result is an underdosage.

The next questions are: how confident that the tap water bicarb is accurate? and is that 2 row malt actually producing a pH of around 5.7 with distilled water? Almost certainly, one or both of these factors are not as they should be.

The bottom line is that it is important to measure. It is also important to now bias your water additions to target a higher pH under the assumption that the pH will be lower than targeted with the software.

mabrungard said:

Well, the density of 88% lactic is 1.21 g/ml. If you were assuming 1 g/ml, that should have resulted in you actually adding 1.48 ml which is less than the intended amount. So that assumption should have been safe and the result is an underdosage.

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Ok, that's good to know, thanks. But then actually my PH shoud be even higher instead of lower, right!?

mabrungard said:

The next questions are: how confident that the tap water bicarb is accurate? and is that 2 row malt actually producing a pH of around 5.7 with distilled water? Almost certainly, one or both of these factors are not as they should be.

Click to expand...

I'm pretty confident, as I have the specs from the company. I use bottled spring water.

About the malt, no idea. I didn't measure that and just trusted that all 2-row malts produce more or less the same ph. I mean do I seriously have to measure every different kind of malt I get??

mabrungard said:

The bottom line is that it is important to measure. It is also important to now bias your water additions to target a higher pH under the assumption that the pH will be lower than targeted with the software.

Click to expand...

Yes, I'll do that, but the reason I started fiddling with my water in the first place is that my light, blonde beers didn't turn out well and I thought it was due to the 'high' ph (Around 5,7 or 5,8 sometimes); so if I have to calculate a -0.2 then the ph of those beers might have been correct all along...

Anyway, I've brewed 8 beers now with changing the water and it doesn't really seem to the better yet...

My last two beers where the oktoberfast ale from BIerMuncher and Revy's Leffe clone and they both didn't turn out nice. I know it could be due to many factors, but do you think that the low mash ph resulting from this issue could be the problem?

Thanks for your help

Based on your method, the pH should have been higher.

There have been many brewers that have found that Rahr base malts can be more acidic than typical. I wouldn't be surprised that there are other base malts with similar higher than typical acidity. The base malt is the largest component and is most responsible for establishing mash pH.

mabrungard said:

Based on your method, the pH should have been higher.

There have been many brewers that have found that Rahr base malts can be more acidic than typical. I wouldn't be surprised that there are other base malts with similar higher than typical acidity. The base malt is the largest component and is most responsible for establishing mash pH.

Click to expand...

Ok, actually it ocurred to me that measuring the ph for the 2-row in distilled water might be quite easy, if I just make a mini-mash of even half a liter, right? could be good to do.

So next time I'll just shoot for .2 higher on the ph and see how it turns out...

Thanks!

Make sure that you replicate your water to grist ratio... that eliminates variations from water.

Also - you don't mention what probe. I have seen a lot of value pH meters on sale lately and targeted to homebrewers. If you do a search here for pH meters, you will find some guidance on criteria for a good meter.

mchrispen said:

Make sure that you replicate your water to grist ratio... that eliminates variations from water.

Also - you don't mention what probe. I have seen a lot of value pH meters on sale lately and targeted to homebrewers. If you do a search here for pH meters, you will find some guidance on criteria for a good meter.

Click to expand...

Thanks, that's a good point. Hope to try the mini mash today.

I bought an Extech Ph100. I think it's quite decent and fits the criteria outlined here on the forum.

tomaso said:

I just bough a ph-meter and used it for the first time on an IPA I brewed yesterday.

So far I'd been using EZ water and trusted it without being able to check.

Recipe is 15L batch; I BIAB with sparge and top up water so mash water is 12L
2,6kg of 2-Row
340g of Caragold (About 50 Lov)

Water specs Ca 43, Mg 12, Sulfate 12, BIcarbonate 167

I Added 1,8ml lactic acid (I usually weigh it out with 1ml=1g); 3,5g Gypsum and 2g calcium chloride.

EZ and Brunwater both give an estimated Mash ph of 5,4

I measured after 20mins and again after 45mins and my Mash ph was 5,15 - 5,20. I calibrated the meter well and measured at room temp.

I remember that when first doing water additions (About ten batches ago) a friend brought his ph meter and if I remember correctly the ph was also about 5,2 when it should have been 5,4.

Have no clue why... help pls.

Click to expand...

Now you know why it says *estimated* mash pH.