Slow ferment with WLP800 / Wyeast 2001 (Pilsner Urquell)

I've used this yeast for four batches of lager now, twice from a starter and twice from a repitch (used both Wyeast 2001 and WLP800, although these are supposed to be analogous. Every time I've noticed that it takes about 4 full weeks in primary to ferment out. My latest repitched bo pils (1.052) has been in the FV for just over three weeks now at 10C (50F) and it's still going. I checked on it last night and it was still churning actively inside the clear better bottle FV, and there was a thin white krausen on top of the beer.

I've only ever made lager with this yeast before, and to be fair it's made great clean lager which has attenuated well, I'm just a little concerned with how long it seems to take to do this. I was always under the impression from what I'd read that a moderate gravity lager ferment with enough yeast should take about two weeks (sometimes longer), but this takes four weeks every time, diacetyl rest or not.

Has anyone else had this issue with this yeast before? I'm considering using a new strain to knock a few weeks of my production time. Any suggestions? I was thinking of WLP833 - Ayinger, as I've heard good things about this strain but would welcome comments / suggestions / advice.

Thanks.

Hey boet, have you considered a d-rest after about two weeks or so ? I realise you don't need one as you're fermenting cold but it would knock the last few points off quickly.
EDIT : sorry, I just re-read your post re the d-rest.
Ive been using W34/70 and Munich 2308 for my lagers - Ive been happy with both of them.

Well I've tried that, can't say it made a whole lot of difference - the beer was still swirling around inside the fermenter for days after warming it up. Besides, it really shouldn't need a D-rest to finish up in a decent time. I even used Servomyces in the wort too to help things along.

I'm starting to think that it's just this yeast, was hoping someone else might have had the same experience.

What strain have you been using, and how does it compare?

With W34/70and Munich I almost finished after two weeks or so sometimes a bit longer. I then d-rest because Im impatient (I pitch and ferment at 8C) and it doesn't do any harm.
This last batch the W34/70 was at 1.020 and the Munich at 1.016 after two weeks (OG 1.040 / intended FG 1.010).

Have you tried any liquid lager yeasts?

Wyeast 2308 Munich lager yeast is liquid.
Ive also used Wyeast 2124 (Bohemian Pils) - it fermented more or less the same.
What size starter you using ? I use at least a 4L starter for largers or two dry packs.
Are you oxygenating / aerating before pitching ?

Ah ok, I thought you meant Danstar Munich, which is dry. Yep, I always make a starter. Usually 5L, then decanted and stepped up with a fresh 5L or wort, but I much prefer to repitch rather than grow up starters.

I aerate with a stone and a pump, after a long splash from my kettle into the FV. My wort is usually about 5C at this point so plenty of oxygen. I guess it must just be the WLP800, will try another yeast next time and keep the WLP800 slurry for my bohemian pils' only.

Let me know which yeast you try and what the results are.

my 1.052 bo pils w/ 2001 w/ starter took 23 days to hit fg at 50f

I've also got a 1.052 bohemain pils that's been fermenting for almost 2 weeks now and is only at 1.030.

yea its interesting because this page claims that PU's primary only lasts 11 days before lagering

http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue5.3/urquell.html

BTB - are you using this particular yeast?
Did you make a starter?

I know it's an old thread, but...

I would not worry too much about the time it takes. Some really yummy Bavarian brews are fermented at 4C and for a similar amount of time. 8C is the highest at which I would ferment since I like my lagers with big mouthfeel

I would not leave such a good brew in a fermenter until final gravity has reached. By that time it's too late!

The way I learned it is:

1) determine the final gravity by fermenting a sample at 25C, or 6 hours on a stir plate at room temperature

2) Once the precise "Endvergaerungsgrad" (attenuation?) and the primary fermentation is at 10-14% above that value, pending on how much carbonation is needed, it's time to transfer the green beer into a keg for secondary fermentation (lagering) 30 days at -1 to 3C.

Some yeasts may take longer, and that can be a very good thing. If it settles out well and comes clean elegant and crisp, then what more do you want? Speeding it up will only impart the flavour negatively.

Effectively, because you didn't lager the beer at the right time it spend way too long in the primary whereas it should be in secondary by now and lagering temperatures

Greetings from Bavaria!