Honey APA: My first Recipe

I did some research and the recipe seems good to me but I could very well be missing something or making a big mistake. I want to learn from the accidents I make, but if anyone sees any problems with the recipe please give me the heads up so I can learn without wasting my money.

HONEY APA

Mini Mash

Grain:
1 lb. White Wheat malt
.5 lb. Gambrinus Honey Malt
2 lb. American crystal 20L

Boil:
7 lb. Light malt extract
1.25 lb. Honey

Hops: .5 oz. Cascade (6% AA, 60 min.)
1 oz. Liberty (4% AA, 60 min.)
.5 oz. Cascade (6% AA, 30 min.)
.5 oz. Amarillo (8.5% AA, 15 min.)
.5 oz. Willamette (5% AA, 15 min.)
.5 oz. Willamette (aroma)
.25 oz. Honey (aroma)

Yeast:
Wyeast 1272 American Ale II

What do you guys think?

I'd at least half the crystal malt, 2.5lbs is a bit much. Personally, I'd do only 0.5lb each. you can go higher if you want, but I wouldnt go over 1.5lbs total.

I'm not sure if its a typo or not, but I'd add all of the honey at the end of the boil. In either case, nearly all the flavor/aroma will be lost during fermentation, but boiling it will decrease the chances of any lasting.

dcp27 said:

I'd at least half the crystal malt, 2.5lbs is a bit much. Personally, I'd do only 0.5lb each. you can go higher if you want, but I wouldnt go over 1.5lbs total.

I'm not sure if its a typo or not, but I'd add all of the honey at the end of the boil. In either case, nearly all the flavor/aroma will be lost during fermentation, but boiling it will decrease the chances of any lasting.

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Thanks for the advice. I saw a recipe online where they put the Honey in at the boil so I figured maybe that would give it some flavor. I also wanted to get some aroma in there at the end, but if boil the honey would be pointless I won't do it. Thanks. Everything else look O.K.?

dont quote me on this, cuz im not sure if anyone has actually done it, but I believe if you caramelized the honey, you would be able to get the flavor to last. caramelized sugar isn't as fermentable so it should leave more flavor behind

the rest looks ok to me, and it should be ok but if you're searching for honey aroma in this, I think I'd keep any hops from flameout to prevent the chance of masking it

also, you're technically doing a mini-mash because wheat needs to be mashed to extract its sugar. its essentially the same as a steep, but a little longer and in less water. steep all the grains loosely in a bag as usual, but cut the amount of water to about 1gallon and hold it @150-160 for about an hour. remove the grains, rinse them if you want, then go about the rest as usual

dcp27 said:

I'd at least half the crystal malt, 2.5lbs is a bit much. Personally, I'd do only 0.5lb each. you can go higher if you want, but I wouldnt go over 1.5lbs total.

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+1

Also, I use honey frequently in some of my beers, and I also make mead. Adding the honey after the boil is over is much better IMHO. I always add mine during the chill-down.. around 120-F, which helps it dissolve well & retain good flavor & aromatics.


--LexusChris

Yup. I've added honey at flameout. Then give the beer time to age. Lots of time. It'll be worth it.

just made my own honey apa as my first recipe. I used 1 lb at 10 minutes. Didn't get much flavor cause honey ferments out, but it deff gave it a drier finish and mellowed out the hops(although just had one last night and its starting to get really hoppy),

Deff let it ferment for at least 3 weeks cause it takes longer to ferment the honey.

What if you add the honey with ~75% fermentation complete? I guess it'd be hard to anticipate how much fill ferment out or you think the yeast would go through it all?

I've heard I should add the honey at flame out, but I've also heard adding it after fermentation is almost complete will retain more flavor. Anyone know which I should try?

Add it at flameout. The wort is warm enough to get the thick honey to liquefy a bit to get it to all blend together.

And, seriously, if you can hold onto at least one six-pack for about a year, you will be amazed at how it tastes. You'll be disappointed that you drank the rest so early.

Sooooo many threads on here about how using honey will dry out the beer or you won't be able to taste the honey blah, blah, blah. I wish I could give all those people a sample of the beer I made with 2 or 2.5 pounds of honey at flameout. I didn't really care for it, but I couldn't bring myself to dump it. So it sat. For a little over a year. When I finally opened one and was about to start dumping, I noticed a pretty good aroma. So I poured some in a glass. OMG!! Our club had a mead demonstration about a week prior to that, and this beer would have fit in perfectly as perhaps an example of a braggot. I ended up taking that beer to the next beer club meeting to share because it turned out soooo good. BUT IT NEEDED TIME.

Moral of the story: Add the honey at flameout. Ferment as usual. Bottle as usual. Make sure to save a six-pack for at least a year. You will be amazed.

hope: What kind of beer was it that you made and what type of aroma and flavor did you get after one year? I mean everything I've read says honey ferments out easily, and I have brewed with some honey with the same results.

http://hbd.org/brewery/cm3/recs/01_69.html

That's the recipe I used for a guideline. I tweaked it a little, but primarily used these ingredients. I used it for a brewing demonstration at a festival. While the grains were steeping, I asked my fellow club members for input on when to add the honey. One guy seemed to use honey quite a bit, so I took his suggestion to add it at flameout.

Have you ever had any mead? It tastes a lot like a real nice mead with nice honey flavor. I DID use orange blossom honey. Not real sure how much a difference it made, but the honey was indeed quite noticeable. Honestly, I brewed that in the summer of 2009. It wasn't until I tried it again in about January of 2011 that it really seemed done. Just like a mead, the honey was definitely there.

It could very well have been ready sooner than that, but the aging really worked wonders with this beer (braggot?).

Yes I have had mead. I believe you, just have not experienced that myself. For OP, I've read the lower quality honey you use, the more complex sugars there will be left at the end because the yeast can not break them down, same with maple syrup. Also an option is Honey Malt. I ended up with a ton of it in a group buy, very sweet but I'll never go through it all because I'm not sure what kind of beer it fits, just sounded good at the time.

magnj said:

Yes I have had mead. I believe you, just have not experienced that myself.

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I've only been able to taste the honey afterwards once, and that was when I used 1.25lb in a gallon batch. It comes through pretty well even after a lot of funk from using Brett C, so I'd guess like 1/3-1/2lb per gallon would come through if theres not alot of other flavors in the way.

For OP, I've read the lower quality honey you use, the more complex sugars there will be left at the end because the yeast can not break them down, same with maple syrup.

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+1, its because the lower grades have more caramelization. If you made a candi syrup out of the honey you could manipulate the level of caramelization by holding it over 220F to slowly caramelize the fructose. the tastes will change, but if you keep it on the lower end (<260) it should keep some sweeter flavors vs caramel.

Also an option is Honey Malt. I ended up with a ton of it in a group buy, very sweet but I'll never go through it all because I'm not sure what kind of beer it fits, just sounded good at the time.

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IPA, APA, kolsch, blondes and wheats all work well with it. IMO the sweetness of honey malt works better with citrusy hops because it doesnt interfere as much as caramel does.

dcp27 said:

IPA, APA, kolsch, blondes and wheats all work well with it. IMO the sweetness of honey malt works better with citrusy hops because it doesnt interfere as much as caramel does.

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Was going to brew my first 10 gallon batch APA with 19lb 2-row, 1lb C60...but maybe I'll go with 1lb honey instead? Going all Chinook too I think.

So the Homebrew store I went to for supplies had Honey Malt (I don't know if it's different than Gambrinus Honey Malt), Red Wheat Malt instead of White, WLP001 California Ale Yeast not Wyeast 1272 American Ale II, and Hallertauer instead of Liberty hops. Here is how the final recipe turned out.

Grain:
.75 lb. Honey Malt
.75 lb. Crystal 20L
.5 lb. Red Wheat malt

Boil:
2 qt. Pale Liquid Malt Extract

Hops:
1 oz. Cascade (60 min.)
.5 oz. Willamette (60 min.)
.5 oz. Hallertauer (30 min.)
.5 oz. Willamette (15 min.)
.5 oz. Hallertauer (15 min.)
.25 oz. Raw Honey (Flame Out)

Yeast:
WLP001 California Ale Yeast

After Fermentation Slows:
.75 Raw Honey

My OG was 1.070, but I added 1 gallon of water to my carboy so I'm not sure how to calculate the actual OG. I'm getting some activity and it's been less than 24 hours so that's a good sign I guess. I'll keep you all posted. Thanks for all the advice.

hope2perc said:

Our club had a mead demonstration about a week prior to that, and this beer would have fit in perfectly as perhaps an example of a braggot. I ended up taking that beer to the next beer club meeting to share because it turned out soooo good. BUT IT NEEDED TIME.

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I can attest to this beer being 100x better after a year. It was OK fresh, but damn good with a year of age on it. For some reason honey takes forever to mature properly if you use a significant amount of it.

Should I add more Honey after fermentation slows? Is that still a good idea? Give me some advice. Also what do you guys think of the OG?

Just sharing a few thoughts...

If honey were to ferment out completely, then why would mead taste like honey? It is 100% honey, water & yeast... When I make my meads now, I don't boil at all. I just add the raw 'high quality' honey to the filtered water until I reach my OG. Nutrients & yeast schedule follow over the next few weeks..

If you were to boil your honey, the delicate aromatic compounds will either break down or evaporate with the water vapor. All you would be left with are the simple sugars that will ferment out. Also, some cheap honey's from the supermarket are diluted with corn syrup or other simple sugars... and that will ferment out pretty easily too. Cheap honey is not advised.

If you really want some authentic honey flavor, use raw un-pasteurized, un-filtered honey. Honey is naturally anti-bacterial due to its low water content.. it does not need to be boiled. Add it directly to your primary or secondary. When it is a small portion of your fermentables, the yeast will not have any trouble fermenting it. (Mead's are another story..)

I brew an American Wheat with 5# 2-row, 4# wheat, 1/2# crystal 15 & 1# honey. The honey is just about 10% of the fermentables in a 5-gal batch. Added post-boil @ 120-F during whirlpool, and the honey comes through nice & balanced.

Njrockpd, I think your .75# raw honey after boil, during cool-down, will be great. Plus, you have honey malt in the grain bill, so plenty of sweetness to go around. To figure out your new OG, remember it is just a measure of density. So you can use dilution math to guestimate your new OG. (e.g. (1.070 x 4)+(1.00 x 1)/5 = 1.056 OG)

Give it a go, take good notes & share your results! Good luck!
:rockin:
--LexusChris

Thanks Chris that helps a lot. I'll definitely keep everyone posted.