First crack at recipe formulation--input please

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brackbrew

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I've been doing a lot of reading lately on yeast strains, temperature, attenuation, beer styles, hop flavor profiles, balance hop- and malt-profiles in beer, etc and decided to try my hand at formulating an IPA recipe (extract with mini-mash). Anybody who has experience and or brewing software that wants to critique, have at it! Thanks for your help and advice.

2 lbs. 2-row pale malt
12 oz. 60° L crystal malt

5 lbs. Munton’s Plain Light DME
1 oz. Chinook Whole Hops (60-minute boil)
1 oz. Nugget Whole Hops (60-minute boil)
1 oz. Amarillo Whole Hops (45-minute boil)
1 oz. Cascade Whole Hops (30-minute boil)
1 oz. Centennial Whole Hops (15-minute boil)
1 Whirlfloc tablet


½ oz. Cascade Whole Hops (dry-hop)
½ oz. Golding Whole Hops (dry-hop)
Oak chips for secondary fermenter

White Labs California Ale V WLP051 Liquid yeast
 
Genghis77 said:
6 different types of hops, interesting.
Click to expand...

I was trying to choose hops that would yield the hop-profile of something as big or bigger than Victory Hop Devil or Dogfish Head's 90-Minute IPA, but I also wanted to more than bitterness, so I went with hops that also had "fruity, citrusy or spicy" tones in them, especially for the late additions and the dry hopping. I don't know, we'll see; it could be a huge hop trainwreck.
 
brackbrew said:
I was trying to choose hops that would yield the hop-profile of something as big or bigger than Victory Hop Devil or Dogfish Head's 90-Minute IPA, but I also wanted to more than bitterness, so I went with hops that also had "fruity, citrusy or spicy" tones in them, especially for the late additions and the dry hopping. I don't know, we'll see; it could be a huge hop trainwreck.
Click to expand...


I dont think so, I think it will turn out pretty good. I sometimes make hop blends, and thats pretty much what your doing. Sound like your doing your homework. Take notes. Remember, allot of great things in life were found by accident. So brew it.
 
"6 different types of hops, interesting."


I use 6 different hops in my Hopinstien british IPA. (Sometimes only 5 depending on what's on hand)
 
I am just getting back into things brewing wise.. however... I brewed with 1.5 oz Perle for boiling (45 min) and .5 Perle for finishing (10 min).... It was EXTREAMLY hopped. The alpha is 9.1 so it might be much higher then what you are going to do. Though that was my first thought, that the wort I made tasted excessivly hoped and I just used one type... only 2 oz....

Do you know the alpha values?
 
I assume most of those are American hops, because I'm not really familiar with most of them.
My first thought is too bitter, but it depends on the AA content of your hops.

If the AA is higher than about 5-6 in your bittering hops, I would cut out one ounce of the stuff at 60 min.

Then again, I'm not super-experienced, so take that with a grain of salt. :)
 
I would check with an online recipe calculator (I generally use http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator) just to make sure you have the bitterness where you want it. I ran your recipe through the recipator using the given AAU and came up with 98 IBU with a 3 gallon boil and 136 IBU with a 5 gallon boil. This may be what your looking for but I for one would be blown away by 136 IBU in a beer with an SG of about 1.055.
 
Keep in mind some of the calculators use different formulas for IBU. If you are doing a concentrated boil (example: 3 gal boil fr 5 gal batch) use Rager. If your boil is bigger than your batch use tinseth, but you have to calculate the concentration factor (boil divided by batch size).

Oh and I beleive you can't actually surpass an IBU of 100. Something involving physics..
 
Denny's Brew said:
Keep in mind some of the calculators use different formulas for IBU. If you are doing a concentrated boil (example: 3 gal boil fr 5 gal batch) use Rager. If your boil is bigger than your batch use tinseth, but you have to calculate the concentration factor (boil divided by batch size).

Oh and I beleive you can't actually surpass an IBU of 100. Something involving physics..
Click to expand...

Hmmm, do you have a link for that last bit? I've never come across anything suggesting 100 was the limit. IIRC, IBU's are suppose to be the measure of alpha acids in the brew in parts per million (I think). Then again, if you can go past 100, I'm not sure I'd be able to tell the difference :cross:
 
LupusUmbrus said:
Hmmm, do you have a link for that last bit? I've never come across anything suggesting 100 was the limit.
Click to expand...

Hopefully Denny will find his link, but in Mosher's Radical Brewing, in talking about hop utilization, he has four factors in calculating bitterness. Number 3 is:

Quantity - More is more, up to about 100 IBU

You have to remember tho, he's talking about bitterness, not IBU's. I think the implication is that you can have more IBU's than 100, you just can't taste them...in other words a 150 IBU beer won't taste any more bitter than a 100 IBU one.
 
That's my guess, El P. Sort of like the difference between super hot suaces (for me at least) - "which one tastes hotter, the one that melts your tounge, or the one that makes your teeth fall out?" :drunk:
 
What happens when you put in hops past the saturation point? If it does not get more bitter, does it do anything?
 
From http://www.allaboutbeer.com/features/246doubleIPA.html

I know I've seen a more formula based limit but this gives some input.

Brewers and consumers toss around IBU numbers that likely aren't accurate. "Hey, did you try the one that's 130 IBU?" we hear Thursday as we walk. In fact, that might not be possible. Brewing chemists can fill a blackboard explaining why, so Mitch Steele-an assistant brew master at Anheuser-Busch who also judged the category-provides an English translation:

"The maximum IBU level in a beer is somewhat dependent on composition of the beer. A higher alcohol, higher gravity beer can have more IBU than a beer at 5 percent alcohol. A 5 percent beer will max out at 120 parts per million iso-alpha acids, which corresponds to about 80 IBU. It is physically impossible to have more IBU than that in a 5 percent beer. As alcohol and unfermented carbohydrate in the beer increases, so does the ability of the beer to carry more IBU. Our hop research expert feels that the claim that some barley wines have over 100 IBU is probably valid."

What a chemist may measure and a drinker may taste can differ. "Perceived hop quality versus measurable bitterness, that's a tough one. I'm not sure there is a relationship because so much more is involved, like flavor balance, and the types of hops used," says Steele. "Many feel that low cohumulone hops produce a better, cleaner bitterness. I do know that during the judging, the imperial IPAs that were not harsh or unbalanced did better with the judges. Clean bitterness was key."
Click to expand...

Of course to get higher alc you need high gravity which also limits IBU's.

The answer is probably to use high quanities of flavoring hops, since flavor and aroma can give a percieved bitterness. I personally think a lot of high hop level overs are actually in love with high flavor acids, not as much with the actual bitterness. I could be wrong on that "perception". :)
 
Michael_Schaap said:
What happens when you put in hops past the saturation point? If it does not get more bitter, does it do anything?
Click to expand...
I think that would be the case. If it reaches a point where the alpha acids stop becoming isomerized, then they would stop adding bitterness to the brew. Alpha acids don't become bitter until they are isomerized. Beyond that, I'm not sure if the excess AA's would simply boil off or what.
 
Thanks for the link and info, Denny. Very interesting. I think you're right in regards to precieved bitterness. Even if the hops don't contribute bitterness past a certain point, I'd wager that further addition of hops would be precieved as such (due to a more intense hop flavor). Interesting stuff.
 

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