Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different

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pdxal said:
Red yeast rice doesn't replace or supplement the yeast balls.
BTW, make sure it is red yeast rice and not red cargo rice...:mug:
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Ive used red cargo rice in the past. It has an odd but not unpleasant sour flavor in the finished product.
 
Red yeast rice as is available in North American Asian groceries is most commonly a cooking ingredient, its primary purpose has been as a food colorant. Monascus purpureus has large quantities of hydrolytic enzymes such as α - amylase, β - amylase, glucoamylase, protease, and lipase which break down the rice constituents during growth and penetration of mycelium into the kernels. It is noted that the optimal biological activity comes from the mycelial stage of the growing organism , when dried it still retains the enzymatic activity to a degree but is optimal when moist and in its virulent log phase. It can be confusing to read, "glutinous rice", some associate glutin with gluten of wheat, Red yeast is not a "yeast" but the name of a fungus that has good enzymatic behaviour with primarily a deep red colouring. As with all rice and cereal ferments a conversion of starch to sugar is necessary. Rice and yeast will be ineffective as a ferment without saccharification first.. There are many organisms that can convert starch to sugar (saccharification). There are enzyme extracts , just straight amylase which can be purchased. For specific purposes using biological organisms the process and practice has to be assessed for efficiency,and best practice. There are four types of starter cultures employing red yeast rice that are common to Chinese food processing. Red rice wine is known as "HONG QU JIU", and uses two parts red rice to one part koji as the enzyme base to catalyze 25 parts glutinous rice in 30 parts water.The process is a staged solid state ferment where all parts are by weight and the red rice is valued for its high enzyme content. Protein is a problem in ferments providing textures and tastes that are disagreeable , the japanese polish the rice extensively to remove the protein. Red cargo rice , is a medium to long grain rice with alot of protein as it is unhulled like brown rice and would be suspect for beverage ferments.Black rice has a high level of anthocyanin the constituent that gives colour in both red and black types, but similarily is high in protein and not good for fermenting. It turns purple when cooked.
 
bruhops said:
...Red cargo rice , is a medium to long grain rice with a lot of protein as it is unhulled like brown rice and would be suspect for beverage ferments...
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And likewise any rice that is not hulled.

I have also read in many Chinese documents that not thoroughly washing the rice before cooking can also contribute more protein, fat and unwanted organisms.

Which is why they always say to fully rinse your rice before and after soaking when making rice wine.
 
How about weekly pictures? Tomorrow is 21 days for me. I'm going hiking tomorrow and then I think I am going to sample :)
 
Well, today was day 21 of the rice wine experiment. I went into H Mart in Atlanta and bought what I thought was the correct rice, cooked it, drained it, crushed the yeast, and mixed it all up. Tossed it into a gallon jar and set it on a heat pad on low...

And waited. I felt like a kid on 12/1. Three more weeks.

Today, tossed the mixture into a mixing bowl passing through cheese cloth, and let the rice ball in the cheese cloth and on a strainer to continue to drain. Squeezed it a good bit - there is a lot of liquid there. Liquid == rice wine. As the original poster said, it WILL have a strong scent of C2H5OH :).

Note: the original poster shows his hand at the top of the cheese cloth pushing down. If you don't want the alcohol all over your hands, follow his lead.

Photo shows the result - that is a one liter bottle. I promised wife that I would wait until this evening... but I did take a little sip. Definitely has a kick. Somewhat sweet with a tangy zing to it. Quite drinkable. I'm going to leave it as it is, but I'll look into flavoring the next batch. Based on what I usually spend on adult beverages, this is much more affordable. And you have to be patient.

Batch #2 starts tonight - two gallon jars this time.

ricewine.jpg
 
cgilley said:
Fast? reading this thread, I concluded that by refrigerating it, the fermentation would stop.
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Definitely vent it (even if in the fridge) every few hours. It will build up pressure fast and bad things will happen. Take a look at the bottom of page 17 on this thread.
 
cgilley said:
Fast? reading this thread, I concluded that by refrigerating it, the fermentation would stop.
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OHHHHH no - it won't! It will build up some AWESOME pressure if you don't let it out of there at least once a day! ;)

I finally bottle pasteurized mine to stop it from fermenting. I was actually amazed how much pressure it built up at fridge temps!
 
Well, I just read this. I'm at work and have warned my wife to vent that sucker very carefully (told her to wrap the bottle in a towel in case it explodes).

Nervously waiting to hear back from her on chat..... :eek:
 
:ban: Am happy to report that I do not have a mess. The bottles I used (see earlier post) seem to have a good seal, but I don't think they'll let the pressure build up too badly. Wife reports that the bottle didn't even go *fump* or hiss.
 
Need some advice if i should call my 1st attempt a failure....
Steamed the hell out of Jasmine Thai...dont have a rice cooker and i could never really get it that soft...added yeast balls and put an airlock on the lid...its been in a dark warm closet for 10 days now and i barely have a tiny bit of moisture down in the bottom...was the rice too dry maybe???
thanks
 
There are many ways to ferment rice, what is always necessary is rice,moisture ,a catalyst,(amylase) enzyme to convert the starch to sugar and yeast.Of secondary importance is a temperature range to efficiently convert the starch and initiate the yeast. I follow Japanese and Chinese traditional process', it is essentially two parts liquid to one part solid. This initially seems like porridge,but quickly converts to a liquid,when the enzyme and yeast are in phase.In my ferments 75 % of the solids are liquified. It sounds like you haven't got enough moisture. First the rice is washed to remove excess dust, then it is soaked until it absorbs one third its weight in water. It is steamed so that the kernels remain separate so when mixed with a small proportion of water there are no lumps. This allows the enzymes and yeast to attain to the most surface area vs a glob that only permits it's outer surface. The yeast requires oxygen to initiate, thus a wide vessel, some surface area to facilitate the respiration. Yeast is an adaptogen, when it matures and is in log phase it does not need oxygen .This can be witnessed by the cloud of carbon dioxide that raises from the bubbling brew and hovers over its surface, CO2 is heavier than air. The yeast can tolerate and does not need oxygen once it has been born.The chemical activity of the enzymes and the growth of the yeast is facilitated by the water allowing a channel so to say for it to move in. Less moisture slower transformation .I get about twice the raw weight of rice in raw liquid from both my Chinese and Japanese style ferments. That is one kilo rice creates two kilos sake or jiu. Both methods complete in thirty days for me , there after, settling clarifying and pasteurizing is up to ones taste. Raw rice ferment is cloudy ,somewhat milky, it can be refined to any degree ,the most being the commercial style water clear pasteurized sake.Your brew might resolve, sound like not enough water If you steamed your rice dry then for sure there isn't enough.After soaking and steaming the cooked rice should be pressed between thumb and middle finger it should not stick together,easily flatten and not spring back to shape. If it is al dente so to say it can be flattened but will be rubbery and return to shape indicating it is not done or hasn't got the moisture necessary. dry rice is soaked to one third greater than its dry weight, steamed and added to 160 percent of its dry weight in water This will quickly absorb into a dough like texture but within two to three days will be a easily flowing liquid as the rice converts, it tends to float until ferment is complete when most will sink .This indicates the time to remove solids from liquids .The best balance allows the yeast ball to quickly grow through the mash before any airborne or surface borne wild yeast,bacteria,or fungi, take hold. The initiated organisms in the yeast ball will protect themselves from invaders if they get a head start. The ph should be around 3.6 to 3.9 after 10 days.At this level of acidity, naturally created by the brewing ,other bacteria cannot initiate.Still it is better to brew around 40 to 50 degrees F once you have initiated the mash, gives better flavor.Foreign colors,surface fuzzies,or foreign smells will be telling if there is a failure.
 
thank you! thoughts on adding liquid at this stage to save the batch? is the airlock hindering the kick start?
 
Adding liquid would definetly help .How much is a guesstimate unless you knew what your original weights were. Make sure its clean at this point, ie. boil and cool it, yeast nutrient, would possibly help if there's a homebrew shop around your whereabouts.You could always add some powdered yeast ball to the water and add that to restart. I prefer to create a starter, then run three additions growing the mash exponentially. It's easier for the organisms to start small then grow , think of it as it's not like you would give a baby a steak to munch, but a child maybe,an teen for sure, and last mature adult no problem. I build the ferment as it is a solid state ferment ,rather than a free liquid, the liquefaction happens exponentially.All at once would be alot of territory for the enzyme and yeast activity. Once you have lots of cells and catalysis, wahooo your set. A little like making a starter for malt ferment, with malt you only need two steps as it is liquid ferment.About the air lock, really isn't necessary . You need a good head space for respiration and expansion, it can grow 10%, co2 bubbles floating rice, and will create its own heat when going strong, more relevant to large batches,I cover mine with a paper coffee filter and an elastic, the idea is to prevent airborne contamination, you should stir it two /three times a day until it starts to liquify and bubble nicely, helps the distribution of enzymes and yeast cells. I have this wide mouth 25 liter jar , perfect for 6 to 8 kilos rice.The pic is a 5 kilo batch.

rice brew.jpg
 
Italian grocers sometimes have them there old school olive containers, that one is old, they use plastic barrels mostly now, they used to have straw baskets like ghianti bottles. If you have an Italian community and asked you might find one, they have Fustis as well kinda like stainless steel milk cans also excellent for solid ferments.
 
bruhops said:
Italian grocers sometimes have them there old school olive containers, that one is old, they use plastic barrels mostly now, they used to have straw baskets like ghianti bottles. If you have an Italian community and asked you might find one, they have Fustis as well kinda like stainless steel milk cans also excellent for solid ferments.
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very nice thank you
 
I added some water last night and stirred it up, was a lot more liquid present then suspected, it now looks very similar to the consistency in your picture. I guess i will ride it out for a few more weeks and see what happens, thanks!
 
You initially said you steamed the hell out of the rice, so the rice should be moist enough. I'd just wait it out, it's a first batch so if you make a mistake, no worries. Adding water will make the end result dryer
 
MasterCrook said:
You initially said you steamed the hell out of the rice, so the rice should be moist enough. I'd just wait it out, it's a first batch so if you make a mistake, no worries. Adding water will make the end result dryer
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On reading up on the Chinese University research paper, it was stated that the water balance is critical. The rice should be sticky, not loose or even slightly soupy.

Too wet can effect the flavor of the wine and make it too tart.

I haven't confirmed this myself though. I have never added water after steaming, except if I'm adding red yeast rice, with it's soaking liquid.
 
I am constantly adding to my research and looking for scientific data

Does this Chinese university paper have a address .Could you provide a reference.
The solid state ferment changes from a solid to a liquid. "The rice should be sticky, not loose or even slightly soupy." This is not a qualified statement , science involves metrics, measurement, since mass (weight) and volume are variables , Science dictates that all solutions be measured by weight. Interesting to note that one gram equals, 0ne cc, equals one ml,in water,at sea level and 20 degrees C. The accepted ratio of water to rice is 2:1 water to rice, rice will absorb a third its weight when soaked, steaming this adds about 2 to 5 % The added water is usually 160% of the dry weight of rice. If you add the 33% plus 5% with the 160 % added water you will be close 2to1. That is 2kilos or 2 liters of water to one kilo of rice. Not by volume. This will initially be very dough like when the hot rice is added to the water.
The concept of "Dryer" by reason of adding water is questionable. Drier ferments , ones that show close to zero on a hygrometer are a result of complete fermentation of fermentable sugar. The yeast must be capable of this and the sugars must be fermentable. How does the water affect this? Sweeter ferments, a result of unfermentable sugar, either a complex sugar or a weak yeast incapable of complete ferment, registering well above zero on a hygrometer. Just how added water factors to make "Dryer" ferments baffles me?
Tartness is a measure of acidity in the ferment process, the reason for increased acidity is primarily the fact that increases in numbers of yeast cells parallels a lowering of the PH or a more acidic ferment. How does added water increase acidity? "Too wet can effect the flavor of the wine and make it too tart"?
It is obvious that the rice ferment becomes increasingly wet as it completes, All my rice ferments change from a solid to primarily liquid within 7 days and by 30 days the weight of solid mater has decreased to 20% of its original mass.. That is all that is left when the liquid is separated from the solid at completion.To note I get about 2 liters of rice wine per kilo of rice exactly similar to the original 2:1 ratio water to rice.

Volume 6, Issue 1, pages 30–39, January 2006 of the Yeast research by Federation of European Microbiological Societies. Published by John Wiley & Sons Ltd. gives a good overview of the hundreds of varieties of yeast,and bacteria,common to solid state Asian ferments.

http://www.sytu.edu.cn/zhgjiu/umain.htm , is a Chinese paper on the history and process of their ferments.
 
A valuable resource ,university research paper from china that I have referenced here has seemingly been blocked to our access. It seems the Chinese server is no longer allowing access. The paper has two chapters that are invaluable.You may be capable of access this is an alternate
Grandiose Survey of Chinese Alcoholic Drinks and Beverages Written by Xu Gan Rong, Bao Tong Fa Jiangnan University China Chapter 2 ,and chapter 3 are a definitive presentation of the culture and practice of rice ferments.
In the years 2013 and 2014 a showcase on rice ferments has been held in Great Britain , this Chinese research paper is available at this site. Other cultural rice ferment practices can also be viewed there .
http://www.spiritsoftheharvest.com/2014/03/grandiose-survey-of-chinese-alcoholic.html
The Representation
Spirits of the Harvest is an initiative to revive the glory of rice and the accompanying spirits derived from biological and chemical reactions in the food application of rice. It also attempts to highlight and promote the appreciation for life sustenance granted by the harvest.

Held at the Royal Agricultural University Cirencester, London UK December 2014
Spirits of the Harvest represents two important entities in the traditions of agriculture and ethnic culture which are rice and the fermented brew from rice, generally known as rice wine and often called tuak, burak, tapai and lihing in Sarawak and Sabah.
 
Re: "Does this Chinese university paper have a address .Could you provide a reference."

Now I can't find it. I thought I got it from this thread, but I may have gotten from a Google search.

I do remember that it was an English translation and a lot of the text was not translated correctly.
I could have also mixed up my source and actually heard the details about not adding water after steaming from a friend who's family has been brewing rice wine for many generations.

I'll see if I can find his text. I believe I posted it a on this thread several months ago.
 
brooklynkayak said:
Re: "Does this Chinese university paper have a address .Could you provide a reference."

Now I can't find it. I thought I got it from this thread, but I may have gotten from a Google search.

I do remember that it was an English translation and a lot of the text was not translated correctly.
I could have also mixed up my source and actually heard the details about not adding water after steaming from a friend who's family has been brewing rice wine for many generations.

I'll see if I can find his text. I believe I posted it a on this thread several months ago.
Click to expand...

There is nothing wrong with adding water after steaming, it changes the results. I've added water to many batches to purposely get a drier wine. It's all preference
 
I won't speak for Mastercrook, but in my experience adding 10-15% water by volume after fermentation is long finished causes my rice wine to taste very much like commercial sake. Much less sweet and less alcoholic tasting.
How about your method, Mastercrook?
 
pdxal said:
I won't speak for Mastercrook, but in my experience adding 10-15% water by volume after fermentation is long finished causes my rice wine to taste very much like commercial sake. Much less sweet and less alcoholic tasting.
How about your method, Mastercrook?
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I usually add just a little to submerge the surface of the rice. If too much is added, it could overflow a few days later during fermentation, depending on how high the rice is in the jar.
 
Has anyone tried freeze distilling the rice wine? I put mine in the freezer over night. It was slushy by the next night. I put the slush in a blender with spout. The alcohol goes to the bottom and out the spout. I just scoop/scrape the slush off the top. This made some very very strong rice wine.
 
lowrider_rt2000 said:
Has anyone tried freeze distilling the rice wine? I put mine in the freezer over night. It was slushy by the next night. I put the slush in a blender with spout. The alcohol goes to the bottom and out the spout. I just scoop/scrape the slush off the top. This made some very very strong rice wine.
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Be careful with this, methanol and other fusel alcohols become concentrated in the wine.
 
I got a 2 gallon yield and heat pasteurized. How long does it take now for the cloudy layer to settle?
 
I have tried this recipe a couple times now always with the same result: a sour flavored wine that I dont like much.

I have tried a few different rices, all more or less the same. For the first couple small scale attempts I was pretty cavalier about sanitization but after bad results I got strict. Same result.

Has anyone else had trouble?

My thoughts on possible problems:
My jars are tall and skinny?
My yeast balls maybe contaminated?
I should harvest sooner before acid production ramps up I have tried 3wks and 4 wks for harvests)

Any ideas?

Edit-
Additional info: I make the rice the same way I always make rice, well rinsed and soaked, followed by cooking 1:1 or sometimes 1.25:1 water to rice, depending on rice type.
I think one place I haven't been careful enough is pitch temp. I am an impatient person. I'm fairly sure I tried once with cooler temps, but since I can't be sure I made some experiment rice, cooled it off, and layered it with yeast ball. My thoughts were (before my latest try) that Koji is kept very warm to work well and amylase likes warm temps as well. Ofc, I gave the fermenting yeast no respect :p
High hopes now, plus I don't mind the failures if I still have fun
 
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pdxal said:
Red yeast rice doesn't replace or supplement the yeast balls.
BTW, make sure it is red yeast rice and not red cargo rice...:mug:
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(Been offline for a month)
It's definitely RYR. My usual batch is a pound of rice (cooked a little on the dry side) and one yeast ball. How much pulverized RYR do I add to make red yeast wine? Will an ounce do it?
 

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