The [Horribly Unpopular] Soccer Thread

Reno_eNVy said:

Wow... Jason Kreis and his assistants Miles Joseph and CJ Brown have been sacked by NYCFC. Looks like we have an early runner for a new turnstile club!

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Here's my take. If Kries was the one responsible for the DP moves, he deserves to be fired. Villa was good, he's the brightspot DP move. Brining on old Frank Lampard when you already had Diskerud was the first mistake. The second was by City's ownership who then kept Lampard in Manchester so he could ride the bench. If you wanted Mix, don't get Lampard, if you wanted Lampard don't get Mix. Those 2 moves together didn't make sense. Instead they could have gotten ALtidore as a striking partner for Villa or Kljestan as a more versatile midfielder (which is how they're using Mix but Mix isn't that type of player) gotten a winger in Farfan or a promising young central mid in Pelosi. Anyway just a waste. Imagine if you would they were the ones to go all out and get Villa and Giovinco instead of Villa and Lampard? ANy number of scenarios IMO work out to be better for NYCFC than getting Lampard. After that the real ****up happens and that's going full stupid and bringing in Pirlo. Pirlo is extremely talented, BUT he plays Serie A as a position who's job it basically is to be a passer and that's it. That doesn't exist in MLS because the league is so athletic driven. Without the talented players at the end of his passes who know the system Pirlo is basically worthless. Could be the worst DP signing since Rafa Marquez.

Talgrath said:

So, one game gone, how are my prognostications holding up?

New York Red Bulls vs DC United: Not bad at all, New York starts the series with a 1-0 win. Sure, DC United only needs 1 goal to tie up the away goals, but it's unlikely the Red Bulls will drop points at home. A bigger concern might be Perinelle's injury though, long term that could hurt the New York Red Bulls.

Vancouver Whitecaps vs Portland Timbers: A 0-0 tie is not ideal for Vancouver, they have the worst home record of all of the teams in the playoffs. That said, I'd still Vancouver has a good shot to win this.

Columbus Crew vs Montreal Impact: A 2-1 win for the Impact is pretty good, but Columbus could still steal this. A 1-0 win at home is all Columbus needs to punch their ticket.

FC Dallas vs Seattle Sounders: Same scenario as Montreal and Columbus, a 1-0 win by Dallas could seal it.

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Some of my commentary (though I'm hardly an expert and missed the first 2 matches for the most part)

NYRB are certainly in the drivers seat. Couldn't ask for more than being up 1-0 with a road goal. Of course NYRB defense has been porous all year. But all they need is enough goals to win or draw.

Vancouver will be feeling good with a draw. Timbers massively outplayed them and it took some luck to get there. I think Portland is the favorites to go through after their play on Sunday but Vancouver just needs a win at home and that's it.

Montreal got the right result IMO. Columbus conceded the most goals during the regular season. All Montreal has to do now is match them. Idont' think Columbus can hold Montreal goalless considering their form.

Seattle is in the same boat. a goalless win would have done them better, but they have to be happy. I expect Dallas to advance though. Seattle has to be praying Ozzy and Evans will be healthy.

hoppyhoppyhippo said:

Here's my take. If Kries was the one responsible for the DP moves, he deserves to be fired. Villa was good, he's the brightspot DP move. Brining on old Frank Lampard when you already had Diskerud was the first mistake. The second was by City's ownership who then kept Lampard in Manchester so he could ride the bench. If you wanted Mix, don't get Lampard, if you wanted Lampard don't get Mix. Those 2 moves together didn't make sense. Instead they could have gotten ALtidore as a striking partner for Villa or Kljestan as a more versatile midfielder (which is how they're using Mix but Mix isn't that type of player) gotten a winger in Farfan or a promising young central mid in Pelosi. Anyway just a waste. Imagine if you would they were the ones to go all out and get Villa and Giovinco instead of Villa and Lampard? ANy number of scenarios IMO work out to be better for NYCFC than getting Lampard. After that the real ****up happens and that's going full stupid and bringing in Pirlo. Pirlo is extremely talented, BUT he plays Serie A as a position who's job it basically is to be a passer and that's it. That doesn't exist in MLS because the league is so athletic driven. Without the talented players at the end of his passes who know the system Pirlo is basically worthless. Could be the worst DP signing since Rafa Marquez.

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Rumor was that Kreis didn't really want Pirlo at all, and was ambivalent about bringing in Lampard midseason, but upper management overruled him and he tried to make it work. I don't know how true those rumors are, but given Kreis' personality they seem to fit the mold. Remember, Kreis doesn't hold the keys to the roster like a European coach, that goes to GM Claudio-Reyna.

To be clear, I think you can make Villa, Lampard and Mix work, make Lampard a CAM and have Mix play on the right, as he has done successfully for the USMNT before, played with a true CDM, that could work extremely well. Alternatively play a 4-5-1 with two CAMs in Mix and Lampard, again with a true CDM and wingers.

Adding Pirlo into the mix is an issue. Pirlo in Juventus typically played in a 3-5-2 or 4-3-3, surrounded by defensive players so he could focus on putting service into the forwards; in that sort of setup speed isn't as much of an issue and Pirlo didn't have to defend. NYCFC isn't set up like that though, they're in a 4-4-2 formation that relies on the midfield clogging things up, and Pirlo doesn't or can't do that. With Pirlo you have two players (Lampard and Pirlo) in the midfield that don't defend, Mix is something of a two-way midfielder but he's not a dedicated defender. That leaves you with one midfielder that's truly defensive, and for NYCFC that man is Andrew Jacobson. To be clear, Andrew Jacobson isn't bad as far as CDMs go, but he's no Ozzie Alonso or Dax McCarthy, the sort of player that can absolutely shut down attacks with great positioning and sheer grit, he's a journeyman with a lot of experience in MLS.

To be quite blunt, NYCFC's problem is not Jason Kreis in my opinion. The mothership expected playoffs in the first year, and that's just not realistic for an expansion team. Ownership thinks that if you throw enough money at it, you can become great in MLS almost instantly, and that's simply not the case.

The Problem was adding Pirlo. Mix doesn't play well wide. He plays best in the same position as Lampard. Best lineup construction is a 4-5-1 for them with Pirlo holding and Mix and Lampard behind the striker, but to make that work they need awesome defenders because Pirlo is worthless in defense.

I agree 100% with your last paragraph.

NYCFC has to get rid of Pirlo if they want a prayer. Replace him with a more capable DP. Especially with names like Rooney, Ronaldo, and Ibra coming along the way potentially. Villa is fine, Lampard is probably fine. Imagine if Villa paired with Rooney?

While I agree Mix isn't at his best wide...he does okay. But yes, ideally you would deploy a 4-5-1 with mix and Lampard as a double CAM underneath. One problem with that is that you are then letting a seemingly very good young striker in Khiry Shelton rot on the bench...but if you bring him on as extra firepower for a midfielder in the last 30 minutes when you're down or you have him sub in for Villa, that's not a bad option. Now that I think about it, actually a 3-5-2 wouldn't be a terrible option sans Pirlo (ironically), Khiry Shelton and David Villa up top, Lampard and Mix as CAMs, two wingers and a CDM. Alternative crazy pants idea: abandon width entirely and go for a 4-2-2-2, double forwards, double CAMs, double CDMs.

Admittingly I don't know anything about Shelton, but if he's got game, put him out wide as a winger basically.

Man United's finest in Action



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hopstupid said:

Man United's finest in Action



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best part was when the ref signaled for a goal kick and Old Trafford cheered because they thought he was pointing at the penalty spot.

If he chipped over the keepr and went down he probably gets a better shout.

Well, here it is, the roster for the upcoming World Cup Qualifiers.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2586794-us-mens-national-team-2018-world-cup-qualifier-roster-announced

My main takeaways:

No Clint Dempsey
Dempsey had an excellent Gold Cup, even if his team mates did not. Admittedly, Dempsey looked less than great against Mexico, but I suspect this is more a matter of letting Clint stick with his club during the continuance of their (potential) playoff run and recovering. after all this is a home match against the Grenadines and an away match against Trinidad and Tobago, not exactly tough games. It is, however, possible that Klinsmann wants to move on from the aging striker, after all Dempsey is 32 and by the time Russia rolls around he'll be 35, if the focus is on building a group to take to Russia, Clint may not see much more time with the USMNT.

Darlinton Nagbe is in
Depending on how you look at it, Nagbe is either the greatest midfielder to ever walk the planet or garbage that can't finish or put in a good cross; my suspicion is that he is somewhere in between. Nagbe, no doubt, is fast and has good ball handling, but often lacks the final product to make those dribbling runs productive, if Klinsmann can get him to make the right runs and take the right shots, he could be a very good midfielder (and that is a mighty big black mark on Caleb Porter's coaching if that is the case). Matt Miazga, another young MLS player, has also gotten a call up, the center back is unlikely to play unless someone goes down injured though.

Alan Gordon is Here?
The veteran forward's presence makes little sense to me, but I guess he's sort of a pocket ace in case the USMNT needs a tall striker to try and get a desperate set piece goal.

The Old Center Mids Are Still Here
Beckerman and Jones haven't had great years, both in MLS for their clubs and in the USMNT rosters. Honestly, I'm surprised to see Beckerman back, but it's possible that Nagbe could be a CAM and Bradley is heading back to his better position at CDM, if that's the case Beckerman and Jones are back ups and late subs to shore up leads.

Overall
I would have liked to see Perry Kitchen or a similar young American CDM in as a replacement for Beckerman/Jones, even if they aren't the immediate replacement, but overall it's a good roster. It's highly likely this roster will change in the 2.5 years between now and Russia 2018, so it's not like this is final by any means, and is probably somewhat experimental still.

I'd like to see Trapp begin to get some reps with the first team. He's been a work horse in Columbus and recently captained the u23s.

He's gotten or is in the process of getting his Greek passport (he has a parents or grandparents of Greek ancestry). Word is he's looking for a move to Europe leagues. Sad for me as a CCSC fan, but overall good for his career. Playing more minutes with the big boys in Europe and on USMNT would help to bring him along for a try in Russia.

Could be the hometown fan syndrome talking but I really think he'll contribute to our first team if/when he's called.

Hugh_Jass said:

I'd like to see Trapp begin to get some reps with the first team. He's been a work horse in Columbus and recently captained the u23s.

He's gotten or is in the process of getting his Greek passport (he has a parents or grandparents of Greek ancestry). Word is he's looking for a move to Europe leagues. Sad for me as a CCSC fan, but overall good for his career. Playing more minutes with the big boys in Europe and on USMNT would help to bring him along for a try in Russia.

Could be the hometown fan syndrome talking but I really think he'll contribute to our first team if/when he's called.

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Trapp does some fantastic stuff, but I'm totally fine with letting him get a little extra seasoning with the U-23s. If the US get into the Olympics (which is a pretty damn big "if" right now) and he does well in the Olympics or he does well in friendlies before the Olympics I could see Klinsmann calling him in next year.

Talgrath said:

Well, here it is, the roster for the upcoming World Cup Qualifiers.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2586794-us-mens-national-team-2018-world-cup-qualifier-roster-announced

My main takeaways:

No Clint Dempsey
Dempsey had an excellent Gold Cup, even if his team mates did not. Admittedly, Dempsey looked less than great against Mexico, but I suspect this is more a matter of letting Clint stick with his club during the continuance of their (potential) playoff run and recovering. after all this is a home match against the Grenadines and an away match against Trinidad and Tobago, not exactly tough games. It is, however, possible that Klinsmann wants to move on from the aging striker, after all Dempsey is 32 and by the time Russia rolls around he'll be 35, if the focus is on building a group to take to Russia, Clint may not see much more time with the USMNT.

Darlinton Nagbe is in
Depending on how you look at it, Nagbe is either the greatest midfielder to ever walk the planet or garbage that can't finish or put in a good cross; my suspicion is that he is somewhere in between. Nagbe, no doubt, is fast and has good ball handling, but often lacks the final product to make those dribbling runs productive, if Klinsmann can get him to make the right runs and take the right shots, he could be a very good midfielder (and that is a mighty big black mark on Caleb Porter's coaching if that is the case). Matt Miazga, another young MLS player, has also gotten a call up, the center back is unlikely to play unless someone goes down injured though.

Alan Gordon is Here?
The veteran forward's presence makes little sense to me, but I guess he's sort of a pocket ace in case the USMNT needs a tall striker to try and get a desperate set piece goal.

The Old Center Mids Are Still Here
Beckerman and Jones haven't had great years, both in MLS for their clubs and in the USMNT rosters. Honestly, I'm surprised to see Beckerman back, but it's possible that Nagbe could be a CAM and Bradley is heading back to his better position at CDM, if that's the case Beckerman and Jones are back ups and late subs to shore up leads.

Overall
I would have liked to see Perry Kitchen or a similar young American CDM in as a replacement for Beckerman/Jones, even if they aren't the immediate replacement, but overall it's a good roster. It's highly likely this roster will change in the 2.5 years between now and Russia 2018, so it's not like this is final by any means, and is probably somewhat experimental still.

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My take on Dempsey, it's because of Seattle being in the playoffs still. He's not a spring chicken like Nagbe or Miazga either so he would be negatively effected by playing. I fully expect him in next time.

I severely hope Miazga and Nagbe get cap-tied to the US. Start them both or bring them on at the half. No reason not to. I'd pair Miazga and Cameron and Besler and Alvarez. Basically pair an experienced CB with a young high ceiling guy. Alvarez got a ton of ****, but he's only 23 and sure that's not the same as Brooks, Miazga, or CCV (someone I want to cap tie really fast as well) he's still young and has tons of potential.

I don't get Gordon either. I'm guessing he's there as a direct sub for Jozy if that's ever needed. But I dont' think it would.

I largely agree with your takeaways. I would love to see Trapp or Kitchen for Beckerman. I'm hoping we see some fun stuff from Jurgen. My hope 4-4-2 for game 1

GK - Guzan
LB - Shea
CB - Besler
CB - Alvarado
RB - Johnson
LM - Jones
CM - Bradley
CM - Mix
RM - Nagbe
ST - Jozy
ST - Zardes

Second game

GK - Howard
LB - Ream
CB - Cameron
CB - Miazga
RB - Johnson
LM - Ibarra
CM - Bradley
CM - Mix
RM - Yedlin
ST - Jozy
ST - Zardes

I like Wood off the bench. I like Morris off the bench. I don't think either are starters yet.

Another thing I could see and would ike is going with a semi-modified 4-2-3-1

Same back as before, but you have Bradley paired with Beckerman/Jones and the other being the enforcer CDM

LAM would be Zardes CAM would be Mix RAM would be Nagbe and Yedlin.

We have a lot of creative options. I am with you though, I wish we canned Beckerman, but maybe this is his sendoff. He mentally is still strong, but he's so slow.

Hugh_Jass said:

I'd like to see Trapp begin to get some reps with the first team. He's been a work horse in Columbus and recently captained the u23s.

He's gotten or is in the process of getting his Greek passport (he has a parents or grandparents of Greek ancestry). Word is he's looking for a move to Europe leagues. Sad for me as a CCSC fan, but overall good for his career. Playing more minutes with the big boys in Europe and on USMNT would help to bring him along for a try in Russia.

Could be the hometown fan syndrome talking but I really think he'll contribute to our first team if/when he's called.

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I could see Trapp and Bradley being a successful pairing. Trapp isn't a hammer CDM like Kitchen. Dream role for him is being a pivot. He obviously can defend, but I think his dream position is to be like Sergio Busquets type of player. Getting in important position to move th eball forward to the mids and be the releasevalve for high pressure situations.

Yep. This is exactly how he's utilized by CCSC. He's the guy who begins the build from the defensive third through the middle.

Well, the finals are set for MLS, though they're two weeks away still, here's my predictions for the eastern and western conference finals. Last time I was only as good as a coin flip, again (50%), so take these predictions with a heavy dose of salt.

FC Dallas vs Portland Timbers
The Timbers managed to get past the Whitecaps, but I don't think their good fortune will last. Dallas has overcome arguably the biggest boogeyman left in the west and done so with a fair bit of confidence despite going to penalties. Vancouver may play a similar style to Dallas, but they don't execute nearly as well as the western conference leaders. Winner: FC Dallas

New York Red Bulls vs Columbus Crew
The Red Bulls won in convincing fashion vs DC United, 2-0 on aggregate, but Columbus is a different beast entirely. Columbus will relentlessly attack, a strategy that puts real strain on the eastern conference leaders' style, which focuses on good offensive and midfield possession to win games. That said, the NYRB have beaten Columbus twice, and one of those instances were in Columbus, while Columbus have only beaten the Red Bulls once, at that was at home, when the Red Bulls shut down those passing lanes for the Crew they look lost. Overall, I expect the NYRB to pull through, though I will say this one is kind of up in the air. Winner: New York Red Bulls

It's worth noting that my predictions, if true, would put 1st in the west up against 1st in the east for the first time in years, so it's probably wrong.

I think if Portland plays the way they played against Vancouver, they could upset Dallas. They'd need some help, but they were the dominant team for pretty much 180 minutes vs. Vancouver who in a way is kind of a poor man's Dallas. For them they'll need very strong midfield play and slow build up. Adi will need to be on his A game, and they'll need to keep their shape when attacking to be ready for the counter. Dallas lucked out as the Sounders almost certainly win with Ozzie Alonso.

To me the craziest thing about the Seattle/Dallas game came down to the fearlessness of Dallas. People often cite the experienced team as having an advantage in penalties. But Dallas had the real right approach. Be direct and confident. Barrett's penalty was attrocious. He was so focused on trying to get Rodriguez to make a move that he eventually eliminated all possibilities of taking anything but a weak kick to the keeper's left. Ivanschitz's wasn't that bad, but it wasn't that good either. He kicked it to the worst place to kick a ball in a free kick. He was direct which is good but kicking it waist high just to either side of the keeper basically means if he guesses the right side he makes the save. Dempsey took the best freekick of the night. It was hard, to a corner and low. Almost impossible to save. Even if the goalie gets a hand on it, it likely rolls off them into the net. It would have taken a perfect guess and that's not what Rodriguez was doing.

Most FC Dallas kcikers had the right idea. Even the ones who didn't still kicked the **** out of the ball. When a goalie is defending a penalty. He or she is basically hoping you give away where you're kicking it and then hoping they guess right one the height. If you only score 2 of 4 vs a goalie and a miss isn't involved, you really failed at your job. I forget the stat, but it's something like only 20% of Penalties are saved.

Holy crap, Dallas v Seattle was crazy. The play was pretty open ended most the match and then it just got nuts at the end of regulation. I went from "convinced Dallas has it" to "welp, it's all Seattle now" to having zero clue but loving it, all in the span of about 5 minutes.

I love this sport

So, with the east set we have two teams out of it, let's start with DC United.

Why does this matter to the USMNT?
Bill Hamid is probably the keeper of the future after Guzan, Perry Kitchen could be a future USMNT CDM, various other players eligible for the USMNT.

How are they out?
A 2-0 loss on aggregate against the NYRB in the conference semi-finals.

What went wrong?
Forwards forwards forwards. DC United bunkered and countered pretty much all year, but Ben Olsen was merely using what he was given. Fabian Espindola was out most of the year and Alvaro Saborio didn't come in until midseason, pretty much all of DC United's forwards are old, veteran strikers who weren't all that good to begin with. The only exception to the rule is Conor Doyle, and the Irish American simply isn't that impressive (only 2 goals in 25 games, 10 of them starts). Sure, an argument could be made that they were expecting Eddie Johnson to be here, but they knew he wasn't going to be around for at least a month before the season started and they made virtually no moves to get a good replacement in the midseason window.

What went right?
Davey Arnaud continued to use his referee mind control super powers to avoid getting a card. Bill Hamid is a living damn highlight reel for keepers. Defensively DC United was extremely solid.

What do they need to do improve?
Well, it should be obvious here, but get some better forwards should be top of the list, ideally towards the young side of things. Develop some, draft some, trade for some, do something because outside of Fabian Espindola the DC United striking corps are abysmal. Getting a solid CAM would probably be a great idea too. At some point, maybe this offseason or maybe the next, Bill Hamid will head to Europe, so get a replacement for him.

Montreal once again get playoff disappointment in the second leg for the second time this year, how did things go overall though?

Why does this matter to the USMNT?
Erm well...ummm....you've got me, no idea.

How are they out?
A 4-3 loss to Columbus Crew on aggregate in overtime of the eastern conference semi-finals.

What went wrong?
Really, there are two different Montreal teams, pre-Drogba and post-Drogba. Pre-Drogba Montreal were a solid defensive team but not much else. Post-Drogba Montreal has two great forwards up top in Drogba and Piatti, but overall still maintains excellent defensive possession. The one major criticism that can be labeled at Montreal is that while Drogba coming in was great for offense, it somewhat disrupted the formation of the rest of the team, they lost some of their defensive sharpness. It's hard to say this is a particularly bad team in any spot, it's just the little things that sank them.

What went right?
Drogba, it turns out, was a pretty good pickup, and assuming he can keep the same level of fitness and motivation at his age (he'll be 38 next season), an offseason of training to gel with the rest of the team should do wonders. Beyond that, coach Mauro Biello turned out to be the right replacement for Frank Klopas, he changed the team from Klopas' bruising style to something more elegant and intelligent. Defensively Montreal were pretty good all season.

What do they need to do improve?
Well, for starters, they need to remove the "interim" tag from Mauro Biello, he's done great work in a short amount of time, and they should stick with him for more than a season and a half; Montreal is notorious for firing coaches, whether they are successful or not. Beyond that, Didier Drogba is unlikely to be around for very long, retirement, one way or another, looms large in his storied career, so Montreal need to work on getting in some young replacement strikers, they have a pretty good amount of them, Montreal need to be smart enough to give the young guys some playing time to see what they can (or can't) do.

The Whitecaps were shown the door by their rivals to the far south, the Portland Timbers, how did their season look?

Why does this matter to the USMNT?
Nope, it doesn't.

How are they out?
An embarrassing 2-0 loss at home to the Portland Timbers in the conference semi-finals.

What went wrong?
If one major criticism could be launched at the Vancouver Whitecaps this season its their refusal to completely commit to the counter and their inability to change tactics when the counter didn't work for them. For the first, at times, bizarrely, when the Whitecaps should have used their speed and youth to rush ahead full tilt, they would sometimes pause and slow things down. For the second, when a possession-oriented team like the Sounders showed up, Vancouver wouldn't change tactics, despite that style being the perfect counter for the counter-striking team.

What went right?
When Vancouver truly believed in themselves, they did great things, winning games handily without bunkering, but instead by getting the ball at midfield and just going for it.

What do they need to do improve?
If Carl wants to go with this sort of high/medium press counter attacking style, he really needs to go for it and hammer it home to his players that if you're on the attack you ram it straight down their throats. Robinson should also have a "Plan B" for when the initial plan fails. Beyond that, the central defense is a little long in the tooth, so at the very least they need to get some younger replacements ready if necessary. Robinson has to figure out if Darren Mattocks is a good striker or not.

As a Sounders fan...this one hurts. Let's see why the Sounders are where they are.

Why does this matter to the USMNT?
Clint Dempsey is, for the moment at least, still a prominent striker for the USMNT, Brad Evans often makes an appearance as well. Beyond that, Victor Mansaray has played for the U-20 team and there's a few other young talents on the team. USMNT striker Jordan Morris is a member of the Sounders FC academy program.

How are they out?
A devastating penalty kick loss to FC Dallas in the western conference semifinals.

What went wrong?
The Sounders usual slump was a longer and more devastating one than usual, Clint Dempsey was suspended, then away on Gold Cup duty and then injured, while Obafemi Martins was injured in the "red card wedding" that saw Dempsey given his suspension. The absence of your two best strikers would make anyone slump a bit, but Sigi Schmid did the team no favors with some very poor decisions tactically, and at 1-0-9 it was the single worst slump in Sounders' history. Beyond that, particularly at the back, the Sounders are old and FC Dallas exploited this age and speed gap during the two game series against the Sounders to devastating effect.

What went right?
The Obadeuce! Obafemi Martins and Clint Dempsey continue to be one of the most if not the most effective two person strike partnership in MLS, they both started 20 games, and combined for 26 goals, more than the rest of the team. Seattle was also one of the best defensive teams in the league, tied with the Vancouver Whitecaps at only 36 goals given up in the regular season.

What do they need to do improve?
It's pretty rare that I think a coach is a team's problem...but in this case I think it's warranted; if the Sounders want to improve Sigi Schmid needs to go. When Plan A works, whatever plan A is that year, it really works and Schmid's teams are very well drilled, but when it doesn't work, due to injury or opponents simply having good counters, the team looks lost. Seattle gets one slump per year, and every time they slump they come out of it looking more vulnerable, this year was particularly bad and the Sounders barely made it into the playoffs. For a team spending this much money, developing young talent as well as they are, that's simply unacceptable. And this is the year where some truly quality coaches truly are available, Mike Petke or Jason Kreis could both be excellent fits for the club. Beyond that, Dempsey is out of contract, and the Sounders will need to find a way to keep him with the team, which shouldn't be too hard.

Beyond the coaching issues, the Sounders are old pretty much everywhere, they're the 2nd oldest team in MLS after NYCFC. At least some of that age needs to be replaced, Zach Scott and Leo Gonzalez need to retire...or be convinced they should retire, Scott in particular has lost more than a few steps this year and Leo can't seem to keep healthy anymore. Gonzalo Pineda seems out of favor and there's little reason to keep the veteran Mexican player around. Chad Barrett's time in MLS may very well be done, with all of his sweating issues, as he ages, Barrett has looked increasingly tired and disappears in games after more than ten or twenty minutes. Brad Evans isn't that old, but he's clearly lost his usual starting spots to other players, at $300,000 salary, the largest after the Sounders' "big four", he can't just sit on the bench to be the man to plug a hole when needed, trading him to another team could net the Sounders some allocation money or some defensive depth.

Talgrath said:

Bill Hamid is probably the keeper of the future after Guzan, Perry Kitchen could be a future USMNT CDM, various other players eligible for the USMNT.

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I think you should change your probably to possibly. I like Hamid. But he's gonna have stiff competition from Steffan and Cropper, not to mention Guzan himself.

I do think Hamid has done good for himself though. He's shut the door on MLS competition. Sean Johnson used to be in the running as a competitor for Hamid but Hamid has outclassed him pretty much shutting the door on Johnson.

Gun to my head, our 2022 keep will be Steffan or Cropper, depending on how they advance. Of course you never know how player develop as they get older.

Kitchen is certainly a runner for replacing Beckerman. I think he should already have replaced him. I do like Trapp's potential more. I think Trapp is better in distribution while Kitchen is more of a wrecker. I like the idea of Trapp being the intermediate between the back and Bradley.

Well, I personally think it will go like this: Howard (briefly) back, then Guzan, then Hamid and then probably Steffen. Cropper is probably Hamid's back up. Cropper is good, but Hamid does some crazy stuff and I think his positioning is better than Cropper. That said, we're at least 2 years off, probably something more like four or more, before Guzan is out, so prognostication at this point is maybe a little premature.

If we're talking about a choice between Kitchen and Trapp, I'm probably going with Trapp myself, but I think Kitchen will definitely be in the mix.

For those who haven't heard, after a lengthy cancer battle, Marton Fulop has died at 32 years old.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/nov/12/marton-fulop-dies-cancer-sunderland

Also yes please. Saido may be ours after all...

http://latestfootballupdate.com/201...artner-after-contract-stand-off-report/1650/3

(Edit: It's the typical unsubstantiated rumor, I know, but I can dream, no?)

Talgrath said:

Well, I personally think it will go like this: Howard (briefly) back, then Guzan, then Hamid and then probably Steffen. Cropper is probably Hamid's back up. Cropper is good, but Hamid does some crazy stuff and I think his positioning is better than Cropper. That said, we're at least 2 years off, probably something more like four or more, before Guzan is out, so prognostication at this point is maybe a little premature.

If we're talking about a choice between Kitchen and Trapp, I'm probably going with Trapp myself, but I think Kitchen will definitely be in the mix.

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Guzan I'd agree has at least 4 years before he's out. I don't know if he'll make it the 7 until Qatar as our number 1, that's severely unlikely, but I know that he is leagues ahead of Hamid now so I don't see him even remotely challenging Guzan.

I disagree re-Cropper and Hamid. Hamid is a better athlete, that I'll give you. But being a better athlete doesn't make you a better keeper. Hamid is probably better at positioning now, but he's 25, Cropper is 22, I'm pretty sure in 3 years his positioning will be better than it is now, by a lot. Because Keepers are one of the positions that have an older age arc. Cropper mentally will be much stronger in 2-3 years than he is now. Remember how Hamid looked 3 MLS seasons ago?

At this point, I'd say arguing one way or the other is hard. Personally, I think Hamid has been very, very good for a while now. Three years ago a lot of goals went in...but that had a lot more to do with DC United being a putrid pile of flaming garbage. Either way, I guess we'll see, but I think Bill Hamid is the next Tim Howard, myself.

Well I think if Hamid was the next Howard he would be out of MLS. At 24 Howard moved to Manchester. Comparing someone to Howard is rough. He's one of the 2 best US goal keepers ever between him and Friedel. I'd say Howard was better for country and Friedel was better for club.

Well, DC United did up his pay significantly to keep him in DC for another year...I suspect he's leaving either this offseason or next midseason for Europe.

Well, it's looking like my predictions for Zardes to Europe may be right...

http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2015/11/12/report-la-usmnts-zardes-subject-of-3-million-bid-from-england/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

Talgrath said:

Well, DC United did up his pay significantly to keep him in DC for another year...I suspect he's leaving either this offseason or next midseason for Europe.

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Yeah, but he would have been bought out like Howard was. Man U paid 4 M for Howard over a decade ago. If anyone offered 4M for Hamid he'd be on his way to Europe.

Talgrath said:

Well, it's looking like my predictions for Zardes to Europe may be right...

http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2015/11...-bid-from-england/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

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Arrrrggg that article was fine and I don't like the idea of him leaving but I get it. But stop f***ing saying that going to Europe will be a challenge for him. If he's going to the second tier then it's not going to make him work harder. There are only a few teams in the English Championship that are even worth a damn compared to MLS.

hoppyhoppyhippo said:

Yeah, but he would have been bought out like Howard was. Man U paid 4 M for Howard over a decade ago. If anyone offered 4M for Hamid he'd be on his way to Europe.

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A fair point, though I'd point out that transfer fees don't necessarily reflect the actual talent of the player.

Reno_eNVy said:

Arrrrggg that article was fine and I don't like the idea of him leaving but I get it. But stop f***ing saying that going to Europe will be a challenge for him. If he's going to the second tier then it's not going to make him work harder. There are only a few teams in the English Championship that are even worth a damn compared to MLS.

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Agreed, at this point MLS to English Championship is, at worst, a quarter or half step up.

Talgrath said:

A fair point, though I'd point out that transfer fees don't necessarily reflect the actual talent of the player.

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No, but my point is if Hamid was as highly touted as Howard was, someone would have offered enough to get him away from MLS.

Talgrath said:

Agreed, at this point MLS to English Championship is, at worst, a quarter or half step up.

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I disagree with that. Now other countries second division, I'd agree a bit. But Championship is really tough.

And the reason why going to Europe even if it's a lateral league move, is key is it puts the players out of their home comfort zone. They're no longer a star player for their team, they have to prove their worth for another team. THat to me is the big advantage even if it's not a huge move forward.

That being said there's more than one first league team who I'm sure could use Zardes.

I can't believe ESPN doesn't have a better partner for Ian Darke than freaking Taylor Twellman.

I think Twellman is okay, though I'm not fond of some of his whining, at least he isn't Alexi Lalas.