Barleywine Helpline

Recently, I have decided that I want to do a barleywine and maybe have it ready in time to put it into a competition near the end of 2011. The grain bills are huge so it will be a substantial cost for a a beer recipe - even at my puny five gallon capacity. I want this recipe to be as perfect at possible.

After reading up on the malt used and the flavor profiling for barleywines, I used a simple Pale 2-row as my base at a lower lovibond so as to allow me to use some darker caramel malts to give a fruitier undertone without the beer being too dark. I'm also using Caramel 40L and a bit of Munich to add to the sweetness and bread/biscuit quality mentioned in the style (BJCP). Here's the recipe: http://hopville.com/recipe/447349/english-barleywine-recipes/barleywine

The "strange" thing in this recipe is I want to add a cup or so of bourbon - Makers Mark, preferably - in the boil (bourbon in the secondary takes over the beer). When reading through the BJCP style guidelines, I read of complexity and dark flavors. I think that the beer would benefit from the addition and it would assist in the port-like sweetness in the end, which leads me to my questions:

1. Is this recipe solid?
2. Is the bourbon too crazy of an idea?
2.2 If not, how much SHOULD I add and at what time in the boil?
2.3 Will the bourbon add enough sugars to increase the alcohol?

Keep in mind, I plan to mash at 150 degrees F for 65-70 minutes and boil for 75 minutes, so please let me know if there are too much hops for the style at the beginning of the boil among other things. Thanks!

Merry Christmas! Cheers!

Are you using any brewing software?

I am no barley wine expert but when I put these numbers into Beer Smith and I had to bump it up to a 87% efficiency in order to get a 1.090 SG. If your efficiency is usually 75% then I would convert this recipe to about 65% and go from there. I also think the Chinook could be bumped up to 1.5 to put it into the 50 IBU range.

If you are aging a barelywine for the minimum year that it's going to require, the bourbon in the secondary will fade and mellow, just like verything else in there. You really won't have to worry about it overtaking the beer.

1. Is this recipe solid?

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Not really. That is way too much crystal for a barley wine. 2.75 lbs of crystal in a BW is about 2 lbs too much. A big beer will be sweet enough from just the base malt without adding too many unfermentable sugars. I'd say your hops are on the low side if you're planning on aging this for nearly a year. You'll lose some of that bitterness. As is, you're setup for a cloyingly sweet beer.

2. Is the bourbon too crazy of an idea?

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Yes. Boiling it off will kill the bourbon aromatics and boil off the alcohol. You want it added post fermentation. You can pull off some of the beer and slowly add bourbon to the sample until it tastes like you want. From there, simply scale it up from the sample size to the full batch size.

2.2 If not, how much SHOULD I add and at what time in the boil?

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0 during the boil. 8 oz. is a good start for secondary, but you might want to experiment.

2.3 Will the bourbon add enough sugars to increase the alcohol?

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If added to the boil, it would be negligible.

I changed the recipe a tad. I disagree about the advice for the caramel malt. The BJCP guidelines state under the ingredients for an English Barleywine that "judicial" amounts of crystal/caramel malts are used to increase the sweetness. In addition, bourbon untouched in the secondary takes over the beer. I want it to be an added undertone. I want the molasses and vanilla flavors. I was talking with my "chef" brother, and we discussed reducing 2 cups of bourbon and putting it in at flameout or pitching itright before the yeast. I have time to go back and forth about this lol

the bourbon will mellow over time, but you could try lightly soaking oak cubes in bourbon if you want a more mellow flavor. medium toast oak will add to the vanilla flavors as well.
just curious, why the mead yeast? you won't need it with only a 1.1 brew

The mead yeast is ther just because I was thinking about it. I'm not quite sure theexact yeast I wantto use yet. It may not be until I get to the brew shop that I decide lol. A year from now, what type of bitterness should I expect from a barleywine? Should it be very strong or just there? I figure the mid 60s is good for a slightly noticable bitter in a year. I had a porter that was at 60 ibu's that turned into the perfect bitterness for a malty beer.

Also since I've changed the recipe, could this stand by itself without the complication of the bourbon (and the mead yeast lol)?

Thanks for the help guys

BeernuT100 said:

Are you using any brewing software?

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Beer calculus on hopville.com is really the onlt "software" I use. I have a little something on my phone, but its not the same type of calculations as the website.

Sorry for the late answer to your question. I lost it among the beer lol

I added 12oz of makers mark to 5 gal of an oaked vanilla bourbon porter. It is about 4 months old now. it has been a good beer, and it is just now turning into a great beer. I vote to add the bourbon to the secondary.

All the barleywines I have had tended to be on the hoppy side of things, even after judicious aging. If I were you, I would take an already successful recipe and tweak it to my needs. Starting from scratch on such a complex beer can be a headache. I made an Old Ale (1.076 SG, if I remember right) and I feel 60 IBU was a tad low and the beer hasn't aged for a year !

Also, with a barleywine, you need to take into consideration the attenuation, especially if you're going higher gravity wise: you need a beer that will dry out somewhat but still have residual sugars. This is why almost 3 pounds of crystal malt is probably too much, notwithstanding the crappy BJCP use of judicious. A lot of award winning barleywines do not even use crystal malts. Bobby M brewed his with Marris Otter and EKG exclusively.

Are these English barleywines that you've had? All the barleywines I can find are American, but even those hop levels when subdued a bit could still be quite bitter, as I would imagine. My last changes included notching the caramel malts down to 1.25lbs (1lb 80L, 4oz special B). I was looking at the 999 barleywine and put some more caramel than they had (not much), but I also noticed what I see in a lot of barleywine recipes: some sort of dextrose. I figure this is to help dry the beer out, would I really need that in this beer that already is at 1.101 without it and using two packets of Thames valley? Ijust don't want to throw the gravity off the charts with over a pound of table sugar.

You replace some of the base malt with table sugar in order to dry the beer, hence no gravity increase. You can also add homemade/storebought caramel or sugars to achieve the same result while adding flavours. Many acclaimed big beers use sugar in the grist to good result.

Your new level of crystal seems fine to me. 2 packets might not be enough depending on batch size and gravity. I'd make a starter or pitch on a cake for a beer this big.