Im going to be brewing the Citra clone recipe from CYBI tomorow and on the show the mentioned needing to adjust the recipe for the whirlpool time if you dont have the ability to whirlpool. The brewer whirlpools for 20 mins after a 60 minute boil. How do I adjust my recipe for that? Do I move all the hop additions back 20 mins? That just doesnt seem right. Any thoughts?
How to adjust recipe for whirlpool???
- Thread starter JonBoy47
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I listened to that episode too, and I remember them getting a little confusing about it. I believe they said to calculate the whirlpool addition as if it were either a 20 or 30 minute addition, and keep everything else the same.. i.e. bittering hops, flameout etc..
bigbeergeek
Well-Known Member
Yeah, Tasty wasn't very clear. He said he moved the flameout addition to the 30 minute mark and kept everything else the same. I don't see how the hell that makes a clone of the commercial beer! The commercial stuff sits at very high temperature for 20 minutes while they use their painfully slow wort chiller. I would imagine the way to clone that procedure would be to slightly cool the wort after flameout, let is sit for 20 minutes then chill the rest of the way and pitch. Please follow up on this thread with what you do, there are a lot of us who want to clone that legendary ale. Maybe someone can contact Tasty on the BN website and we can get a definitive answer...
I think tasty said he moved the 30 minute addition to flameout instead of the other way around. Still doesnt quite make sense to me. That was one if the more confusing episodes ive listened to. Ill definately let you guys know how it turns out.
ne0t0ky0
Well-Known Member
I didn't listen to the episode, but usually I just move the "whirlpool" edition back however long it was going to be, so a 20 minute whirlpool ends up as a 20 minute addition. The difference between boiling and near boiling after flameout isn't going to change alpha acid extraction rate.
That makes sense but this recipe has a 60, 30, 15, 10,and 5 minute additions with no whirlpool addition. If you move those all back 20 minutes to account for the whirlpool time it doesnt really make sense. That would mean your last hop addition is at 25 minutes
ne0t0ky0
Well-Known Member
Not sure I'm following you here. If you wanted to whirlpool for 20 minutes *instead* of late boil hops; then I'd skip the 15, 10 and 5 during the boil, start up the whirlpool at flameout after the 60 minute boil (this will cool the work down under 200) and at 15, 10 and 5 left of the whirlpool time, add those additions.
If you didn't want to whirlpool and the recipe called for it, then I'd move the whirlpool addition back from flameout for however long the whirlpool was going to be. so, 20 minute whirlpool would be a 20 minute boil addition.
i took it as changing addition time in the software only by 20 min to calculate ibu, so keep your standard time (60, 20, 5,0 ect) when adding hops but when calculating IBUs adjust the amount of hops and change time (in the software) by 20min (i would leave 60 as its is cuz its 100% utilization anyway and then 40, 25, 20)
ne0t0ky0
Well-Known Member
Polboy said:
Right. I'm suggesting further that if couldnt or don't whirlpool, you'd get the same bittering by shifting it back during the boil. The one advantage of the whirlpool, and id suggest that this is why whirlpools are worth the effort, is that since your not actively boiling, and you can cover, you'll keep more of the volatile aromas in the whirlpool versus a 20 min boil addition which is going to push out some of the aroma due to the boiling action.
BudzAndSudz
Well-Known Member
I'm super confused here. The only time I've ever whirlpooled (and I'm guessing I did it wrong), I simply cooled the wort with my immersion chiller, and then gave it a couple good swirls with my brew paddle for a couple minutes and then covered it and let it sit. Since I cooled it first I assumed that there wouldn't be any effect on the beer. Are you supposed to whirlpool while the worst is still basically boiling?
ne0t0ky0
Well-Known Member
You can do it either way:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Whirlpooling
Usually in these clone threads, whirlpooling is referencing what pro brewers do w.r.t large edition of late hops. The whirlpooling of nearly boiling wort allows for AA extraction and to free up the boil kettle. IIUC, the technique also helps with wort extraction from the vegetal mass.
In a homebrew sense, it's either a method post chilling to help collect the hop and cold break material so it doesn't end up in the fermentor. Also it's used right after flameout to steep hops in nearly boiling wort before chilling.
Fairly long thread here on folks experiences...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/how-get-best-hop-aroma-flameout-additions-213803/
Well fellas I decided to do what I thought Tasty meants on CYBI. I did 60, 15,10,5,and 0 minute additions. I whirlpooled (stirred with a big spoon every few minutes) for 20 mins and chilled. The wort has tons of hop flavor so hopefully it will turn out well. I will post my results in a couple weeks.....but first I have 4 dry hop additions to do!!!
I've heard on a few of the podcasts from the BN that those guys usually (loose term here) that they count a 30 minute whirpool as a 20 minute addition.
Clearly, this isn't super scientific, or even perfect for every system or setup, but I've used it and found that to me, it tastes right. So, if a recipe calls for 50 IBU overall, and I want to whirpool the late hops for 30 minutes (and I nearly always do if it's a hop forward beer) then I'll input the 0 minute whirpool hops into Brewpal as a 20 min charge, and see what that contributes. I'll then back off the 60 minute charge to compensate. So now the 60 minute charge + the whirpool (calculated as a 20 min charge) = total IBU figure.
I couple this with Basic Brewing Radio' s data on a max possible 50 ibu bittering from any size 60 min bittering addition (check out that podcast and prepare to save hops at 60 minutes if you bitter heavy at 60), and have found that I CAN get beers that are more bitter if that's what I'm looking for. The hop flavor is my chief concern, and the whirpool/hop stand delivers for me.
Needless to say, YMMV.
Clearly, this isn't super scientific, or even perfect for every system or setup, but I've used it and found that to me, it tastes right. So, if a recipe calls for 50 IBU overall, and I want to whirpool the late hops for 30 minutes (and I nearly always do if it's a hop forward beer) then I'll input the 0 minute whirpool hops into Brewpal as a 20 min charge, and see what that contributes. I'll then back off the 60 minute charge to compensate. So now the 60 minute charge + the whirpool (calculated as a 20 min charge) = total IBU figure.
I couple this with Basic Brewing Radio' s data on a max possible 50 ibu bittering from any size 60 min bittering addition (check out that podcast and prepare to save hops at 60 minutes if you bitter heavy at 60), and have found that I CAN get beers that are more bitter if that's what I'm looking for. The hop flavor is my chief concern, and the whirpool/hop stand delivers for me.
Needless to say, YMMV.
