No, but there was a secondary fermentor (though generally not a fermenter, if you follow). Most of us do engage in a secondary fermentation process, it's just in the bottle. I'm sure the overlap and extension of terminology was natural.
Does "no secondary" equal "shooting yourself in the foot
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No, but there was a secondary fermentor (though generally not a fermenter, if you follow). Most of us do engage in a secondary fermentation process, it's just in the bottle. I'm sure the overlap and extension of terminology was natural.
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But it's not what a secondary was. Before yeast became a well-controlled science it was better to get beer off the old, dying yeast before fermentation had completed and let the healthy ones that hadn't flocculated finish the job. Autolysis was a real concern, regardless of the batch size. Who ever coined the term knew exactly what they were saying.
Bob
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I like the term "conditioning tank". Since a "bright tank" is a vessel to receive bright beer, after filtering and before dispense/packaging, what homebrewers call "secondary" isn't a "bright tank" in the slightest way.
Traditional pro breweries who still use a second vessel call them conditioning vessels. Makes sense to me.
Bob
Traditional pro breweries who still use a second vessel call them conditioning vessels. Makes sense to me.
Bob
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You (I) hear things often enough and you take them for fact. You motivated me to look into this more. Beeradvocate had the term’s "bright tank" and "conditioning tank" as synonymous, but the lemmings there aren’t to be trusted. Here’s an article with more creditability. I’ll file this under, “what I learned about beer today.” Unless the beer is already clear going in, a secondary vessel is not a bright tank. Thanks Bob.
Good info there. I had always assumed (not really having looked into it) that the "brite tank" was where a beer went to become bright (cleared), not somewhere it went after clearing had taken place.
It's usually unfiltered beer in a bright tank. At least at craft breweries.
Bob
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Not at the craft breweries where I brewed, Denny. The "bright tank" was what the output of the filter was hooked up to. Maybe it's a regional thing.
Bob
Bob
Wow, out of town for a few days and this thread really took off with useful info. Thanks guys!
In regards to fermentation temp, 71 degrees is what the thermostat on the A/C is set to. It's really that crude. I'm looking into better systems, but I want to jump right into something that will really let me dial that in. I've seen the bins you can put the carboy in along with ice packs, and the "swamp chiller" method, but I'm thinking something more accurate would be nice. Ideally with liquid contact to the carboy surface, and a way to measure the temp at the center of fermentation, if that exists.
So, temp control is on the way, just haven't quite figured it out yet. The beer is coming out pretty great in the meantime, so it's all good.
In terms of a secondary, maybe I should have considered one. I just dunked oak beans and spices in the primary container as adjuncts (right term?) so there is a possibility I mildly disturbed that layer of CO2. I wasn't wild about it, so the CO2 layer should be disturbed about as much as you'd get by using a beer thief three times to take a measurement.
My process for the oak chips was as follows:
1: Submerge a spoon, funnel, and a steeper cylinder in StarSan.
2: Boil oak cubes for a few minutes. (I didn't time it, would guess 3.)
3: Use the sanitized spoon to transfer oak cubes to the sanitized cylinder.
4: Submerge cylinder (which took some oxygen with it I'm sure) into primary carboy.
5: Use sanitized spoon to sample the boiled oak juice, and discard spoon after sampling.
6: Tastes really good, so poured that into the carboy via funnel. (actually now thinking I should try cooking salmon with oak beans... it was delicious.)
Adding the spices, I just brought those up to a low boil for about 30 seconds, cooled the bottom of the pot in the sink, and dumped those through the funnel as well. At very least, I don't think the CO2 resting in the carboy from its own weight would have been removed, so there should still be a layer of it on the beer.
So, I probably added some O2 to my carboy via the splashing liquids, and there's probably some O2 at the top of the carboy that wasn't there before, but I should still have the blanket. We'll see how it turned out when I return home tomorrow. It's about time to check on the oak.
In regards to fermentation temp, 71 degrees is what the thermostat on the A/C is set to. It's really that crude. I'm looking into better systems, but I want to jump right into something that will really let me dial that in. I've seen the bins you can put the carboy in along with ice packs, and the "swamp chiller" method, but I'm thinking something more accurate would be nice. Ideally with liquid contact to the carboy surface, and a way to measure the temp at the center of fermentation, if that exists.
So, temp control is on the way, just haven't quite figured it out yet. The beer is coming out pretty great in the meantime, so it's all good.
In terms of a secondary, maybe I should have considered one. I just dunked oak beans and spices in the primary container as adjuncts (right term?) so there is a possibility I mildly disturbed that layer of CO2. I wasn't wild about it, so the CO2 layer should be disturbed about as much as you'd get by using a beer thief three times to take a measurement.
My process for the oak chips was as follows:
1: Submerge a spoon, funnel, and a steeper cylinder in StarSan.
2: Boil oak cubes for a few minutes. (I didn't time it, would guess 3.)
3: Use the sanitized spoon to transfer oak cubes to the sanitized cylinder.
4: Submerge cylinder (which took some oxygen with it I'm sure) into primary carboy.
5: Use sanitized spoon to sample the boiled oak juice, and discard spoon after sampling.
6: Tastes really good, so poured that into the carboy via funnel. (actually now thinking I should try cooking salmon with oak beans... it was delicious.)
Adding the spices, I just brought those up to a low boil for about 30 seconds, cooled the bottom of the pot in the sink, and dumped those through the funnel as well. At very least, I don't think the CO2 resting in the carboy from its own weight would have been removed, so there should still be a layer of it on the beer.
So, I probably added some O2 to my carboy via the splashing liquids, and there's probably some O2 at the top of the carboy that wasn't there before, but I should still have the blanket. We'll see how it turned out when I return home tomorrow. It's about time to check on the oak.
I always pour the liquid,liquor,whatever through a hop sock into secondary,tie it off & drop it in. Your cylinder would act the same way. Whenever you soak wood chips,etc in any liquid,it'll absorb the flavors of the liquid,while soaking out wood resins. You want those resins in the beer,as this is where the oak flavor comes from. so that's cool.
They have these to put in a carboy for temp probes;http://www.midwestsupplies.com/stopper-thermowell.html It also has a 2nd hole for the airlock as well. The johnson temp controller on the same page has temp probes that go in the well.
And I'd have poured the spices through a hop sock into secondary as well to keep the beer clean at bottling time.
They have these to put in a carboy for temp probes;http://www.midwestsupplies.com/stopper-thermowell.html It also has a 2nd hole for the airlock as well. The johnson temp controller on the same page has temp probes that go in the well.
And I'd have poured the spices through a hop sock into secondary as well to keep the beer clean at bottling time.
Bob
Well-Known Member
Could be, could be. All I know is the packaging breweries in the PA/NJ/DE areas, when I was working in the industry, called the final tank before packaging the "bright tank". In brewpubs it was the "serving tank". If beer went into it to rest or be fined, that tank was a "conditioning tank".
So unlike emjay I'm not willing to make a blanket statement to the contrary.
Nomenclature can be a funny old thing. Sometimes it's universal. Other times, not so much.
