help with imperial ipa recipe

I've put together an IPA recipe that I think should be pretty good but I cant seem to figure out a way to get the FG down below 1.020. I know the brew software only give an estimate so my actual results may very but Id like to have the numbers somewhat dialed in before i make it. is this even something i should be concerned with?

heres the recipe:

Yw Imperial IPA-2

Recipe specifics:

Style: Imperial IPA
Batch size: 5.5 gal
Boil volume: 4.2 gal
OG: 1.088
FG: 1.022
Bitterness (IBU): 120.2
Color (SRM): 7.6
ABV: 8.7%

Grain/Sugars:

5.00 lb Extra Light DME, 42.6%
3.00 lb Extra Light DME, 25.5%, boil for 10 min
2.00 lb Wheat DME, 17.0%, boil for 10 min
1.00 lb Corn Sugar, 8.5%, boil for 10 min
0.50 lb Crystal 20L, 4.3%
0.25 lb CaraMunich, 2.1%

Hops:

2.00 oz Warrior (AA 15.0%, Pellet) 60 min, 88.4 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo (AA 8.0%, Pellet) 15 min, 6.0 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade (AA 6.6%, Pellet) 15 min, 9.9 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo (AA 8.0%, Pellet) 5 min, 4.8 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade (AA 6.6%, Pellet) 5 min, 4.0 IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe (AA 12.0%, Pellet) 5 min, 7.2 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo (AA 8.0%, Pellet) 0 min, 0.0 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade (AA 6.6%, Pellet) 0 min, 0.0 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo (AA 8.0%, Pellet) dry hop
2.00 oz Cascade (AA 6.6%, Pellet) dry hop
1.00 oz Simcoe (AA 12.0%, Pellet) dry hop

Yeast/Misc:

American Ale yeast, 2.0 unit(s), Yeast Us5
Finings, 1.0 unit(s), Fining Whorfloc tab, boil 5 min

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I'm not seeing how your yeast finishes that high, especially with that much corn sugar. Could be an alcohol tolerance issue built into the program - maybe some folks who have played with US-05 more can speak more to its tolerance.

Not that it matters wrt the yeast attenuation question, but why is the boil volume smaller than the batch size?

Cheers!

Jonkl said:

I'm not seeing how your yeast finishes that high, especially with that much corn sugar. Could be an alcohol tolerance issue built into the program - maybe some folks who have played with US-05 more can speak more to its tolerance.

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Im not sure. I have used that same yeast in a big ipa before that came in about 8.5%.

day_trippr said:

Not that it matters wrt the yeast attenuation question, but why is the boil volume smaller than the batch size?

Cheers!

Click to expand...

I have a five gallon brew pot that i can safely boil about 4.25 gallons in. Then once its in the carboy i plan to top it off up to about 5.5 gallons.

Any ideas?
Recipe feedback?

dreaded_rust said:

Any ideas?
Recipe feedback?

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Hey there, I've used US-05 for most of my brews recently but the highest OG to FG I've completed was OG: 1.061 to FG: 1.014 with no problems what so ever.

I've seen some other big beer recipes use US-05 along with a Wyeast and some yeast nutrients to give the yeast the extra kick it needs to survive and still work in such a high alcohol environment.

I suggest looking at some bigger beer recipes and seeing the types of yeasts and nutrients they may use.

Thanks for the advice.
I did read a whole lot of imperial ipa recipes and the ones useing dry yeast quite often had US-05. So im thinking I may be ok with that.
if it gets to the point where I think it may have stalled out too soon can I just add some fresh 05 or would I use different yeast dor that?

Base your recipe closer to this, with adjustments as necessary... (it produces a killer Extract IPA that finishes dry, pale, and hoppy but not too bitter)

You can add more DME and Corn Sugar if you want to bump up the abv. Keep in mind, this may result in a higher FG.

Basic Extract American IPA

6.50 Gallon Boil / 5 Gallon Batch
1.064 OG / 1.012-13 FG
6.8% abv
5.65 SRM

57.5%, 4.50 lbs. Briess Golden Light DME or Muntons Extra Light or Light DME (added at boil start)
31.9%, 2.50 lbs. Briess Golden Light DME or Muntons Extra Light or Light DME (added at flameout)
6.4%, 0.50 lbs. Corn Sugar (added at flameout)
4.2%, 0.33 lb. Crystal 20L (crushed & steeped separately at 150-155 F for 30 mins, then added to main wort volume)

10 oz. total hops

Boil 60 mins, 1.50 oz. Columbus 17% aa pellet hops, added to full rolling boil
Post-boil hop steep, 30 mins at 150-165 F, 1.50 oz. Simcoe pellet hops
Post-boil hop steep, 30 mins at 150-165 F, 1.00 oz. Centennial pellet hops
Post-boil hop steep, 30 mins at 150-165 F, 1.00 oz. Cascade pellet hops
Dryhop 5 days at 68-70 F, 2.50 oz. Simcoe pellet hops
Dryhop 5 days at 68-70 F, 1.00 oz. Centennial pellet hops
Dryhop 5 days at 68-70 F, 1.00 oz. Cascade pellet hops
Dryhop 5 days at 68-70 F, 0.50 oz. Columbus pellet hops

Safale US-05 dry yeast, fermented at 62-64 F – 81% attenuation

Steep Crystal Malt in 2 quarts of 150-155 F water for 30 minutes. Retain the wort and discard the grain. Simultaneously, bring a covered pot of 6 gallons of plain water to a full rolling boil.

When a boil is reached, remove lid (never using it again), add the steeped crystal wort and 4.5 lbs. of DME. Stir to combine and bring back to a full rolling boil.

When a full rolling boil is reached, add the bittering hop charge. Maintain the boil until the next hop additions and the end of 60 minutes. At this point, add the remaining DME and Corn Sugar.

Cool wort to 165 F and then add your Whirlpool hops. Allow them to stand within the 150-165 F range for 30 minutes. Proceed to cool down to 60 F.

Aerate and completely oxygenate the cooled wort by vigorously shaking, stirring, and any other means necessary while remaining sanitary. Pitch hydrated yeast into 60 F wort. Seal and store in a cold 58-62 F room or chest cooler (ambient air temps slightly lower than target ferm. temp. is preferred since fermentation releases up to 8-10 F heat as a byproduct.

Ferment at 60-64 F for 8 days then raise temp. to 68-70 F and dryhop for 5 days.

Bottle with priming sugar using a priming calculator like this one - http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/priming.html

Let carbonate for 2-3 weeks at room temp. Refrigerate. Drink.

US-05 will be fine with that alcohol content. It can handle it very easily. I would only start getting worried if you got above 12%.

With most brewing software the FG is calculated using an apparent attenuation (AA) percentage. Yours looks like it's set to 75%. The software doesn't take recipe, mash temp, ingredients, etc. into consideration. They will usually just use the listed AA percentage for that yeast (or the middle of the range listed). Usually you can adjust this percentage manually in the recipe.

With that pound of corn sugar in there, I would think you would get at least 80% attenuation using US-05. Possibly more. I'm not really sure how well extract will attenuate. At 80% attenuation you would have an FG of about 1.017.

It just takes some experience seeing how well different beers with different ingredients attenuate using different yeasts. Then you will be able to make better estimates of the FG.

If you want to make sure it finishes dry enough you could even up the corn sugar to 1.5-2 pounds. Just remove enough extract to get the OG back to 1.088.

Thanks for the recipe Bob. I'll file that one away for another time.

I upped the corn sugar a bit and might just stick with what ive got here. What do ya think?

Yw Imperial IPA-2

Recipe specifics:

Style: Imperial IPA
Batch size: 5.5 gal
Boil volume: 4.2 gal
OG: 1.088
FG: 1.022
Bitterness (IBU): 125.8
Color (SRM): 5.7
ABV: 8.7%

Grain/Sugars:

4.50 lb Extra Light DME, 38.3%
3.00 lb Extra Light DME, 25.5%, boil for 10 min
2.00 lb Wheat DME, 17.0%, boil for 10 min
1.50 lb Corn Sugar, 12.8%, boil for 10 min
0.50 lb Crystal 20L, 4.3%
0.25 lb CaraPils, 2.1%

Hops:

2.00 oz Warrior (AA 15.0%, Pellet) 60 min, 92.5 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo (AA 8.0%, Pellet) 15 min, 6.3 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade (AA 6.6%, Pellet) 15 min, 10.3 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo (AA 8.0%, Pellet) 5 min, 5.0 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade (AA 6.6%, Pellet) 5 min, 4.1 IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe (AA 12.0%, Pellet) 5 min, 7.5 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo (AA 8.0%, Pellet) 0 min, 0.0 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade (AA 6.6%, Pellet) 0 min, 0.0 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo (AA 8.0%, Pellet) dry hop
2.00 oz Cascade (AA 6.6%, Pellet) dry hop
1.00 oz Simcoe (AA 12.0%, Pellet) dry hop

Yeast/Misc:

American Ale yeast, 2.0 unit(s), Yeast Us5
Finings, 1.0 unit(s), Fining Whorfloc tab, boil 5 min

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I think that should turn out pretty tasty! I might add all of the late DME and sugar at flameout though. That way you don't kill the boil with 10 minutes left, and you get a head start on cooling the wort. It will still be hot enough to pasteurize it all.

peterj said:

I think that should turn out pretty tasty! I might add all of the late DME and sugar at flameout though. That way you don't kill the boil with 10 minutes left, and you get a head start on cooling the wort. It will still be hot enough to pasteurize it all.

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Genius.
Didnt know you could do that

-I would recommend a starting boil gravity of at least 1.040 for a big IPA like this. You want to be boiling those bittering hops in actual wort, not water with a tiny bit of DME added as an afterthought. You're close to 1.040 so this advice is more for others who are looking to do something similar.

-I second adding the late DME and Corn Sugar all at flameout. I would also reduce the Corn Sugar from down to 6-9% for an Extract IIPA. 12-13% isn't bad, but things can begin to taste off when you get in the double digits.

-You don't need any Carapils here. DME already contains roughly 5% Carapils, so you would just be unnecessarily adding more with no benefit.

-Is there a point to nearing 9% abv? Extract IPAs don't attenuate as well as their all-grain and partial mash counterparts. You will be left with a sticky, syrupy 1.020+ FG if you choose to target 1.088 OG. The final result will be less drinkable than something say 7.0-7.7% abv.

-5 minute hop additions are very similar to 0 minute hop additions, from an IBU standpoint. The real difference is that 5 minute additions will offer less flavor/aroma than a 0 minute addition. So why do both?

-Reduce the 90 minute bittering charge and up the 15/10 minute addition.

-Suggest 1.5 oz. for bittering, 3 to 4.5 oz. at flameout, and 5 to 6 oz. dryhop. Use the remaining hops at 10 minutes.

bobbrews said:

-I second adding the late DME and Corn Sugar all at flameout. I would also reduce the Corn Sugar from 14.6% down to 6-9% for an Extract IIPA. You want to create beer, not 85% beer and 15% malt liquor.

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The extra sugar is to counteract the higher portion of unfermentables in extract. In all grain you would just mash lower to increase fermentability. You can't change the fermentability of extract, but you can substitute a portion of it for simple sugar and achieve a similar result. And 1-2 pounds of sugar in a big IIPA is perfectly acceptable.

Recipe percentages are somewhat skewed when comparing between extract and all grain because the extract packs more sugar per pound than grain. To make this recipe with all grain you would use about 14 or 15 pounds of base grain instead of 9.5 pounds of extract. So then the sugar would only be making up about 9-10%.

-You don't need any Carapils here. DME already contains roughly 5% Carapils, so you would just be unnecessarily adding more with no benefit.

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I agree with this. The carapils may be unnecessary. But it's such a small amount I don't think it would make much difference. The Briess website actually lists their extracts as being 99% base malt and only 1% carapils. I always thought it was more.

-Is there a point to nearing 9% abv? Extract IPAs don't attenuate as well as their all-grain and partial mash counterparts. You will be left with a sticky, syrupy 1.020+ FG if you choose to target 1.088 OG. The final result will be less drinkable than something say 7.0-7.7% abv.

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Hence the added sugar. With the sugar it will attenuate down just fine. And the point is that this is the kind of recipe and beer he/she wants to make.

-5 minute hop additions are very similar to 0 minute hop additions, from an IBU standpoint. The real difference is that 5 minute additions will offer less flavor/aroma than a 0 minute addition. So why do both?

-Reduce the 90 minute bittering charge and up the 15/10 minute addition.

-Suggest 1.5 oz. for bittering, 3 to 4.5 oz. at flameout, and 5 to 6 oz. dryhop. Use the remaining hops at 10 minutes.

Click to expand...

I think the OP's recipe is good, and I feel like this is just another suggestion to make a different beer.

peterj said:

The extra sugar is to counteract the higher portion of unfermentables in extract. In all grain you would just mash lower to increase fermentability. You can't change the fermentability of extract, but you can substitute a portion of it for simple sugar and achieve a similar result. And 1-2 pounds of sugar in a big IIPA is perfectly acceptable.

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Aware, but I find off flavors when you near 12-13% simple sugars as a part of your IPA fermentables. For me, 6-9% seems to be the sweet spot for extract IPAs, 0-6% for All Grain IPAs depending on the recipe.

peterj said:

The Briess website actually lists their extracts as being 99% base malt and only 1% carapils. I always thought it was more.

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Wow. For all of their extracts? I remember contacting them years ago and they informed me that the Carapils portion was about 4-5% of the grist for Golden Light DME. Muntons said the same thing about their Light DME.

peterj said:

I think the OP's recipe is good, and I feel like this is just another suggestion to make a different beer.

Click to expand...

Consolidating the 5 min and 0 min additions is more about common sense. You get more hop character from 0 min additions with very little loss of IBUs (more of which aren't needed here).

Blasting the beer with more late hops will provide more of that sought after hop aroma... The type where you can smell the beer in the glass from 3 feet away. Most, if not all of the top commercial IPA examples fall between the 25-40% hopstand and 40-50% dryhop mindset (assuming total recipe hops by weight).

bobbrews said:

Wow. For all of their extracts? I remember contacting them years ago and they informed me that the Carapils portion was about 4-5% of the grist for Golden Light DME. Muntons said the same thing about their Light DME.

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Yeah I thought it was around 5% too, which is why I was surprised when I just looked it up on their website: http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Products/Extracts.htm.

peterj said:

Yeah I thought it was around 5% too, which is why I was surprised when I just looked it up on their website: http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Products/Extracts.htm.

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Hmm, do you think that adding actual Carapils will help an Extract IPA though?

There are typically no issues with head retention or body in an Extract IPA. And the added dextrins may result in the FG not going as low as it could.

No, I probably still wouldn't add the carapils. I usually don't even use it in my all grain recipes.

You're right that you wouldn't need the dextrins. You would get plenty of those from the extract already because I believe it's typically mashed in the mid to upper range (154F+) which is not ideal for an IIPA.

peterj said:

No, I probably still wouldn't add the carapils. I usually don't even use it in my all grain recipes.

You're right that you wouldn't need the dextrins. You would get plenty of those from the extract already because I believe it's typically mashed in the mid to upper range (154F+) which is not ideal for an IIPA.

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Agreed. I can count on one hand the times I've used CaraPils for an IPA with some portion of Extract. CaraFoam however is a bit different and has a little bit of that caramel sweetness to go with it.

Awesome discusion guys, I appreciate the advice. I think im gonna stick with the hop schedule but drop the cerapils.
I had added it thinking it would help with getting a nice creamy head but i think the wheat dme will help with that area

Just my experience, but I've never gotten less than 80% attenuation on my extract IPA's (even some Black IPA's nearing IIPA levels) using US-05. My last couple batches of 1.055-1.060 IPA's actually hit 83-84% attenuation using 6-12% steeped specialty grain and "second generation/reused" US-05 with no simple sugar.

Alright guys heres the final recipe i ended up doing.
I'm not sure how it happened but i ended up with a OG of 1.092.

Yw Imperial IPA-2

Recipe specifics:

Style: Imperial IPA
Batch size: 5.5 gal
Boil volume: 4.2 gal
OG: 1.084
FG: 1.021
Bitterness (IBU): 142.4
Color (SRM): 5.3
ABV: 8.3%

Grain/Sugars:

5.00 lb Extra Light DME, 45.5%
3.00 lb Extra Light DME, 27.3%, boil for 20 min
1.00 lb Wheat DME, 9.1%, boil for 20 min
0.50 lb Corn Sugar, 4.5%
0.50 lb Honey, 4.5%, boil for 10 min
0.50 lb Corn Sugar, 4.5%, boil for 20 min
0.25 lb Crystal 20L, 2.3%
0.25 lb Crystal 10L, 2.3%

Hops:

2.00 oz Warrior (AA 16.5%, Pellet) 60 min, 91.4 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo (AA 8.2%, Pellet) 15 min, 5.9 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade (AA 6.8%, Pellet) 15 min, 9.8 IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe (AA 12.3%, Pellet) 15 min, 17.6 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo (AA 8.2%, Pellet) 5 min, 4.7 IBU
1.50 oz Cascade (AA 6.8%, Pellet) 5 min, 5.9 IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe (AA 12.3%, Pellet) 5 min, 7.1 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo (AA 8.2%, Pellet) 0 min, 0.0 IBU
1.50 oz Cascade (AA 6.8%, Pellet) 0 min, 0.0 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo (AA 8.0%, Pellet) dry hop
1.50 oz Cascade (AA 6.6%, Pellet) dry hop
1.50 oz Simcoe (AA 12.3%, Pellet) dry hop

Yeast/Misc:

American Ale yeast, 2.0 unit(s), Yeast Us5
Finings, 1.0 unit(s), Fining Whorfloc tab, boil 5 min

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I didn't read the whole topic, but I bet it's in here. I would just not do any late boil additions and go 100% steep. I don't understand aroma boil additions. You may as well add less post boil additions to get the same amount of flavor. Especially if you're using so much Amarillo. Just my 2 cents! Other than that, the flavors look fine

TheHairyHop said:

I didn't read the whole topic, but I bet it's in here. I would just not do any late boil additions and go 100% steep. I don't understand aroma boil additions. You may as well add less post boil additions to get the same amount of flavor. Especially if you're using so much Amarillo. Just my 2 cents! Other than that, the flavors look fine

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Yup. Late boil additions are pretty much useless nowadays, but it is a trend you cannot kill. The old schedule of 30-15 min "flavor" additions and 15-5 min "aroma" additions will not die. Adding hops at these points is simply a waste of hops. "Flavor" and "Aroma" are not heightened within those time frames. People like to put things in an easily understandable box, I guess. More flavor/aroma will be had with post boil additions or at 180 F or less. Those delicate, pleasurable hop flavors and aromas will not be volatized as much.

In the end, hop additions for an IPA are meant for 2 things: Achieving high bitterness or achieving high flavor/aroma... You cannot have both if you add them at the same time. So a bittering charge + warm hopstand + dryhop is all you need. Hops off the vine are extremely aromatic. If you want to retain as much of that magic as possible, then don't expose the majority of your hops to boiling temps... In fact, do the opposite with about 80-90% of your total IPA recipe hops.

I do get the logic behind your advice against late boil additions, but it seem that for every post I read saying not to do them, I read three other things saying to do them. Does that make sense? Im relatively new to all this and im trying to soak up as much knowledge as possible. Lots of the recipes I come across and the things I read say to add hops in this manner.

As far as fresh hops im hoping to do exactly that this fall. Ive got a few hops plantedn

dreaded_rust said:

it seems that for every post I read saying not to do them, I read three other things saying to do them.

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You hear this in the diet industry all the time with reports that carbs are bad, dietary fat is bad, eggs are bad, cholesterol is bad yet most of the human brain is comprised of cholesterol, red meat is bad yet the best athletes and bodybuilders in the world eat it daily, coffee is bad and then its good and then it's bad again...

Take the simple truth for what it is. I personally rely on logic over what people tend to believe/follow without any rational evidence. Don't be a sheep.

bobbrews said:

You hear this in the diet industry all the time with reports that carbs are bad, dietary fat is bad, eggs are bad, cholesterol is bad yet most of the human brain is comprised of cholesterol, red meat is bad yet the best athletes and bodybuilders in the world eat it daily, coffee is bad and then its good and then it's bad again...

Take the simple truth for what it is. I personally rely on logic over what people tend to believe/follow without any rational evidence. Don't be a sheep.

Click to expand...

Well I consider myself more of a sheep dog than a sheep and im a devout Pastafarian so believe me, im not one to go with trends or follow for following's sake. What im simply pointing out is that much of what ive read points in the direction of late hop additions. To me both arguments have their merrit. most recipes I come across have similar hop schedules so it seems to me to be conventional wisdom. I do understand. That that doesnt necessarily make it true...hell conventional wisdom used to tell us the earth was flat. Im open to new ideas so tell me why...give me an indisputable fact why late boil hops and hops in the "flavor" time range aren't the way to go. I am educated and fairly science literate so help me understand your POV

Experiment for yourself - you'll find out. As far as your OG being off with an extract batch that's usually one of 2 things - inadequate mixing after topping off or inaccurate volumes.

chickypad said:

Experiment for yourself - you'll find out. As far as your OG being off with an extract batch that's usually one of 2 things - inadequate mixing after topping off or inaccurate volumes.

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Well im certain that it mixed well and got my volume right. not sure what happened. I did use a scale to measure out the honey and corn sugar. It was just a cheap walmart digital scale so maybe it was ofd?? ReaduReading too light?
Idk....either way im certain it will be really tasty

Update
I checked the gravity couple nights ago and its down to 1.015!!!!! Thats 10.2% abv
I think I'm going to move it to secondary tomorrow and add the dry hops as well as some grapefruit zest. The sample tasted amazing by the way...but a little bit warm...can definitely tell its strong