Pitching washed yeast

I bottled a batch this weekend and washed & stored the yeast. From this I collected approximately 45 ml of yeast slurry.

I plan on using this yeast to make a starter and pitch it into another batch this weekend. Using the Mrmalty calculator that everyone recommends, it suggest 108ml of slurry (did not adjust the thickness or non yeast % slider). And a starter of nearly 2 liters. This seems like an excessively large starter considering I created the original batch of beer from just a little bit of yeast in a smack pack.

Does this sound right? Should I step it up.

1.050 OG by the way

Sounds right to me. 45ml isn't a lot of yeast. You could do a 1L starter, cold crash, decant, and do a 1L step-up if you don't have a large enough starter vessel. I make 2 to 3L starters for most of my beers. I'd rather over pitch by 100 billion cells than under pitch.

Stauffbier said:

Sounds right to me. 45ml isn't a lot of yeast. You could do a 1L starter, cold crash, decant, and do a 1L step-up if you don't have a large enough starter vessel. I make 2 to 3L starters for most of my beers. I'd rather over pitch by 100 billion cells than under pitch.

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Thanks! Do you cold crash and decant all that extra wort off when you make a 2-3 L starter? I understand that you can just pitch the whole thing but seems like it would affect flavor.

I always decant the spent wort except for about one cup, so I have enough liquid to re-suspend the yeast. I've also been known to decant all spent wort and add a cup or two of fresh wort from the boil on brew day to "wake up" the yeast and then just pitch it all.

By 45ml of yeast, do you mean, it has settled out in the container and measures 45ml?
Or do you mean you filled a 45ml vile with suspended yeast?

If you truly have 45ml of settled (compact, not suspended) yeast, I would consider that a good amount.
45ml is more than you would get in a white labs vial, although viability wouldn't be the same.

For a 1.050 beer, I wouldn't worry about doing more than 1L. I would consider starting it a few days in advance of your brewday.

I use pints.

unionrdr said:

I remember a white labs guy in a youtube video saying 24 hours was plenty. I'm going to wash the WL029 German ale/kolsh yeast I'm getting any time now after the two batches I'm using them in. Are pint jars the normal size you folks use to save the yeast? Or are half pints plenty? This'll be my first time washing yeast. I get the process,just not sure what size jar is the right size to use.

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I usually add my "clean water" to the fermenter, shake, let it settle for 5 minutes and then pour off the yeast into 2 quart jars, leaving just the heaviest trub. Then I let it settle about 10 minutes and pour out of the quart jars into pint jars...usually 1 fermenter fills 4 pint jars in total. I use the yeast from 2 of the pints for my next 11 gallon batch, making a 1.0 - 2.0 liter step up starter. Working great and at worst case I'm over pitching.

Grannyknot said:

If you truly have 45ml of settled (compact, not suspended) yeast, I would consider that a good amount..

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For myself, I figure 1.2 billion cells per ml when using washed slurry, so 45ml would equal 54 billion cells. If said yeast was a week old, according to Yeastcalc.com you would need a 1.5L starter on a stir plate for a 1.050 beer. YMMV

Grannyknot said:

By 45ml of yeast, do you mean, it has settled out in the container and measures 45ml?
Or do you mean you filled a 45ml vile with suspended yeast?

If you truly have 45ml of settled (compact, not suspended) yeast, I would consider that a good amount.
45ml is more than you would get in a white labs vial, although viability wouldn't be the same.

For a 1.050 beer, I wouldn't worry about doing more than 1L. I would consider starting it a few days in advance of your brewday.

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I have 2 - 8 oz jars with a total of 45 ml of yeast between the two of them that has settled over the past 3 days and looks nice and clean.

Let me make sure I have this right. So this is what I have gathered from numerous threads and Youtube videos:

1. Mix a cup of DME with a 1 Lt of water
2. Boil 15 mins, transfer to flask and chill to 70 degrees or so
3. pitch 45 ml of washed yeast
4. put on stir plate for 24 hrs
5. cold crash
6. Allow yeast to warm up for a few hours before pitching and decant if desired
7. pitch into wort

Does this sound correct or did i miss a step. Thanks!

unionrdr said:

I remember a white labs guy in a youtube video saying 24 hours was plenty. I'm going to wash the WL029 German ale/kolsh yeast I'm getting any time now after the two batches I'm using them in. Are pint jars the normal size you folks use to save the yeast? Or are half pints plenty? This'll be my first time washing yeast. I get the process,just not sure what size jar is the right size to use.

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I picked up some half pint jars to in order to save space in the fridge. Now I kind of regret doing so because I was only able to get about 23 ml of settled yeast out of each jar when it was all said and done.

I would imagine that by using the pint jars you should get twice as much yeast compared to the 8 oz. Which actually leads me to my next question..

Does anyone wash their yeast in a large quart size or half gallon size jar, cold crash the large jar full of washed yeast overnight, decant most of the liquid and then fill smaller, say 8 oz, jars slam full of mostly yeast?

OrdinaryAvgGuy said:

1. Mix a cup of DME with a 1 Lt of water
   [*]Boil 15 mins, transfer to flask and chill to 70 degrees or so
2. pitch 45 ml of washed yeast
3. put on stir plate for 24 hrs
4. cold crash
5. Allow yeast to warm up for a few hours before pitching and decant if desired
6. pitch into wort

Does this sound correct or did i miss a step. Thanks!

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Boiling for 15 full minutes is debatable. I usually just do 4-5 min boil.

BigRedHopHead said:

Boiling for 15 full minutes is debatable. I usually just do 4-5 min boil.

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Thank you. Does everything else sound right?

unionrdr said:

From what I've seen,the whole idea is to get the trub to settle out,keep the yeast in suspension & pour that into pint jars & seal.

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I suppose what I was asking is for the sake of storage space, could I add sterilized water to my fermenter, swirl around and let it settle for 20 mins or so. From here pour off the yeast still in suspension into a half gallon jug, allowing the clean yeast to settle at the bottom before transfering into a quart size jar.

Perhaps a couple days later decant the beer off the top and consolidate the layer of yeast from both jars into one 8oz jar.

Something like this???

OrdinaryAvgGuy said:

Thank you. Does everything else sound right?

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If you have a high quality flask then you can try pouring boiling wort into it, however I would not. I cool my wort in my covered pot and transfer 75F wort to my flask, and then immediately pitch my yeast and cover with aluminum or foam stopper.

unionrdr said:

You're nor supposed to let the yeast setle to the bottom too. Just the trub you don't want. Otherwise,you can't pour off the yeast if it's settled on the bottom.

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I was thinking about washing yeast as you normally would - Add sterilized water to fermenter & shake, allow 20 mins for trub to settle, pour suspended yeast into large jar, give that a shake, allow to settle 20 mins, and pour off suspended yeast into a couple quart sized jars.

From here, I was considering taking it a step further. By now almost of the trub should be out of the yeast. Cold crash for a day or so then decant all liquid but a little from both jars, then transfer the double washed yeast into a couple 8 oz jars to store. In the end, you would have 2 or so 8oz jars filled almost to the top with clean yeast. I planned on leaving just a little liquid on top to get the yeast into suspension when I am ready to pitch.

Seems like a lot of extra steps but I only have one fridge and would like to store several different strains of yeast.

stpug said:

If you have a high quality flask then you can try pouring boiling wort into it, however I would not. I cool my wort in my covered pot and transfer 75F wort to my flask, and then immediately pitch my yeast and cover with aluminum or foam stopper.

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When you say high quality do you mean an Erlenmeyer Flask?

OrdinaryAvgGuy said:

I suppose what I was asking is for the sake of storage space, could I add sterilized water to my fermenter, swirl around and let it settle for 20 mins or so. From here pour off the yeast still in suspension into a half gallon jug, allowing the clean yeast to settle at the bottom before transfering into a quart size jar.

Perhaps a couple days later decant the beer off the top and consolidate the layer of yeast from both jars into one 8oz jar.

...

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I would recommend reading through WoodlandBrew's blog for some fascinating information on all aspects of yeast (harvesting, storage, viability, starters, etc). In particular, I would recommend you read the following blog on yeast harvesting and storage, and consider trying this on your next batch.

http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2013/01/yeast-storage.html

OrdinaryAvgGuy said:

When you say high quality do you mean an Erlenmeyer Flask?

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No, I mean the actual quality of the erlenmeyer flask. Some are thin-glass while others (pyrex) are thick glass. Kind of the difference between a wine glass and coke bottle (a little exaggerated but close)

unionrdr said:

Ok,I gotcha. sounded like you were trying to get settled layers & then scoop the yeast out. I'd wonder about not having enough liquid on top of the yeast to keep it sealed away from the air in the head space. Liquid should be up to the bottom of the threads like canning to my thinking.

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Yeah, sorry I wasn't clear there. I was thinking of maybe leaving a oz or so of water at the top of the 8oz jars, and having the rest be washed yeast.

My thoughts on this are that I could make two starters out of one 8 oz jar.

3.5 oz of actual yeast = 100 ml or half of the 7oz of washed yeast

According to MrMalty, lets say on average I let this yeast set for a month. It is now 40% viable. The calculator says that I need 211 ml to achieve 184 billion cells for a 5.25 gallon batch.

I'm thinking that I could take 100 ml of 1 month old yeast make a starter which will double the number of yeast to 200 billion - just enough for what I need. Then I will have 3.5 oz of yeast left over that can be used the same way within the same time range or I may have to step it up as it gets older.

stpug said:

I would recommend reading through WoodlandBrew's blog for some fascinating information on all aspects of yeast (harvesting, storage, viability, starters, etc). In particular, I would recommend you read the following blog on yeast harvesting and storage, and consider trying this on your next batch.

http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2013/01/yeast-storage.html

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Sounds like this guy just cans the trub and all. Have you tried this?

unionrdr said:

you know,I'm having a hard time believing mr malty when they say that 60% of the yeast always die by the end of the first month. In the fridge,it's like they're in suspended animation. They'd have to last longer to my thinking,since manufacturers dealers,etc stor'em in a fridge at certain temps like I do. That software always seems to err on the high side. But 60% mortality rate? I call BULLOCKS!

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I was thinking the same thing. I've read probably a hundred different posts and heard of many people who have luck storing yeast for a year or more with no problem.

It makes you wonder if there is a connection between the creator of the calculator and the yeast labs who are trying to sell new yeast. I tried to click on their about page and it is a broken link.

Kinda like pharmaceutical funded studies. Its a conspiracy man...:fro:

Stauffbier said:

Sounds right to me. 45ml isn't a lot of yeast. You could do a 1L starter, cold crash, decant, and do a 1L step-up if you don't have a large enough starter vessel. I make 2 to 3L starters for most of my beers. I'd rather over pitch by 100 billion cells than under pitch.

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I'm going to do this with this batch only because it is cheaper than buying another smack pack.. Next time I will harvest more. Thank you.

OrdinaryAvgGuy said:

Sounds like this guy just cans the trub and all. Have you tried this?

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This is all I do, collect a quart of the yeast slurry from the fermenter and and store in the fridge and repitch in a subsequent batch...easy peasy. Sometimes I will brew and rack in the same session, then I simply use a large soup ladle to transfer a quart or so of the yeast cake to the new batch.

OrdinaryAvgGuy said:

Sounds like this guy just cans the trub and all. Have you tried this?

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My current process is like this (not as easy/peasy as wilserbrew):

What I start with:
- Carboy with yeastcake
- 63 oz jar full of boiled/chilled water
- 32 oz jar full of boiled/chilled water
- 16 oz jar full of boiled/chilled water
- 8 oz jar full of boiled/chilled water
- 8 oz jar full of boiled/chilled water
- 8 oz jar full of boiled/chilled water

On transfer/kegging day:
- Transfer beer usually leaving behind 4-6 oz beer
- Add most of the 32 oz jar of water to carboy (~25 oz)
- Swirl yeastcake and water to mix into milkshake/mud consistency
--- A ring of extra-trubby yeastcake usually remains stuck to carboy; leave behind
- Save water from 63 oz jar into 32 oz jar, dump the rest
- Pour yeast slurry into 63 oz container and top up with water saved water to about 1 inch from top
- Seal 63 oz jar and shake really well; vent gas afterwards
- Rest 63 oz jar for 20-30 minutes
--- Because the slurry is so thick, there is very little settling that actually occurs but a little bit; usually dark bits of matter
- Pour 90-95% of 63 oz jar into 32 oz, 16 oz, and an 8 oz jar; toss remaining 2-4 oz of slurry
- Cold crash these jars for 3-7 days
- 16 oz jar usually becomes a direct pitch starter for me if I use it within 2-3 weeks (just pull from fridge, decant, shake, and pitch in new brew)
- 32 oz jar (about 1/2 full) gets decanted and split into two 8 oz jars
- Decant original 8 oz jar and add additional slurry, if any
- Top up all jars with boiled/chilled water
- I usually end up with 1/3-1/2 full jars of settled yeast with light colored liquid on top (3-4 jars total; in the realm of 20 volume oz of yeast slurry total)

OrdinaryAvgGuy said:

I suppose what I was asking is for the sake of storage space, could I add sterilized water to my fermenter, swirl around and let it settle for 20 mins or so. From here pour off the yeast still in suspension into a half gallon jug, allowing the clean yeast to settle at the bottom before transfering into a quart size jar.

Perhaps a couple days later decant the beer off the top and consolidate the layer of yeast from both jars into one 8oz jar.

Something like this???

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Your plan is good. This is what I do. Add 3 quarts boiled and cooled water to the fermenter. Swirl all up. Pour all into 1 gallon jar that has a neck. The neck is important. The neck will help keep the trub separated from the suspended yeast when pouring. Let it begin to settle. As soon as I see a thin line of clear water/wort I pour into two quart jars. The second quart jar will contain some trub. I allow this one to settle once more and then pour off into another quart jar. These go to the frig untill all the yeast has settled to the bottom. Allow up to a week for some yeasts. I decant the clear top layer leaving a half inch to resuspend the yeast in. The yeast from these two quart jars will go into 1 pint jar. Top off with boiled cool water. In the yeast calculators this is entered as dense slurry. I marked these pint jars in 25ml increments on tape.

1L starters for me also when I need them (haven't done any lagers). I have done one 1.6L stepped starter for a big beer from a fresh white labs vial but that's a fancy as I've ever got. Save your money for grain

I usually build starters from 1/3 vials and save the other 2/3 for two other future starters, which is why I'm usually doing larger starters. I do the same thing with washed slurry. I try to stretch the yeast as far as I can to get as much use out of it that I can. I always pull extra wort out of my tun when I lauter and freeze it for future starters, so it really doesn't cost me any more than a typical batch of beer costs.