Fun Partigyle Math

So I googled "Partigyle chart" images and found this screenshot:
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1430494279.545171.jpg

It seems to show how you can swap out a given amount of gallons in each batch to achieve different gravities. This got me really excited, but I searched a could not find the chart on the "host" website or anywhere else.
So I got to thinking, why can't I just pull out the pen and paper and figure it out myself?
You need to understand the basics of gravity points per gallon, and how that does not change with boil off/dilution, to follow my math here.
I MAY BE WRONG HERE, but check out my calculations.
I normally brew 10 gallon batches at 65% efficiency. I know from experience that boiling off 2.5 EXTRA gallons (which I will be doing in this case, because of 2 separate boils) that I will net 5% extra efficiency per se.
So with my system, 23.5 lbs of grain at 10 gallons and 70% efficiency = 1.060 OG.
If I did a normal Partigyle, I could get 5 gal of 1.080 wort with 1st runnings, and 5 gallons of 1.040 wort with second runnings.
You can reference this chart here for figuring that out:
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1430494406.481286.jpg

I don't want a beer that big nor a beer that small, so below is my math on how I think I can achieve my desired 2 OGs of 1.068 and 1.052...
You can see that I will be swapping 2.25 gallons from the first runnings with 2.25 gallons of the second runnings, preboil.
I did the same math down below with several different amounts of swapping until I landed on 2.25.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1430494461.375075.jpg

I will be brewing this batch in June (wish I could fit it in earlier, but I gotta get a hefe going for summer!)
I'll report back on how it went.

Take a look at braukauisers sheet at: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Batch_Sparge_and_Party_Gyle_Simulator

My experience with partygyle (limited) was that I got HALF the original beer size, and HALF the gravity. E.g., if I brewed 10g of a 1.080 beer, my second beer could only be 5g of a 1.040 beer.

I did this twice, that's what I got.

I honestly thought more people would weigh in on this. Where the Partigyle brewers at??? Im looking for any input/experience

pricelessbrewing said:

Take a look at braukauisers sheet at: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Batch_Sparge_and_Party_Gyle_Simulator

Click to expand...

I first found that spreadsheet to do a parti-gyle after listening to the can you brew it episode for cloning fullers ESB. I messed around with it for quite awhile but never could really get two beers I wanted to brew. I ended up modifying the spreadsheet to do 4 running so I could calculate a beer made from the first and fourth runnings and a second beer from the second and third runnings. I ended up brewing 1.5gal of a 1060 ESB and 3.5gal of a 1040 Mild. I added dark grains to the mash after the first running to get the flavor and color right for the mild.

For me it is a lot of messing around to save an hour of mash time, but I do think the spreadsheet could be helpful in debugging and improve mash efficiency.

I've only done 1 partigyle brew and it was the Kate the Great RIS which came in at 60% efficiency and 1.109 OG. I didn't want to waste the remaining potential So I plugged the same grain bill into Beersmith and changed the yield to 30% of the stated value for each grain. I then capped off the grain bill with additional grains at 67% efficiency to get the OG of the second beer where I wanted it at 1.057 and and hit it dead on.

Follow up:
I finally brewed this yesterday, and it worked! If I would it have overshot my volume collected for the first runnings, my numbers would have been almost exact. I ended up with a 1.065 beer and 1.046 beer, and did some quick re-mathing to try to account for my excess volume/low OG. I traded 2.5 gal instead of 2.25.
I can't say I would do this again without a refractometer (I meant to borrow my friends but forgot). Chilling a wort sample and taking gravities added quite a bit to my brew day, but it was great nonetheless!
Btw I added candi sugar to both to bring OGs to 1.049 and 1.075.

Oh yeah, and also I wouldn't do this again with pilsner, 2 boils at 1.5 hrs each... Ughh I'm exhausted

Recipes please.

"Master Batch" is how it would look if I brewed it all as one batch and none of the adjunct sugars added. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1436056267.170707.jpg

Actual, larger batch. Consisting of ~ 70% wort from 1st runnings and ~30 wort from 2nd Runnings View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1436056448.857924.jpg

70% 2nd runnings, 30% 1st View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1436056728.226544.jpg

I did a partigyle early this week. Here's what I did:

My goal was to have two 5 gallon batches, a 21°P Wee Heavy and a 12°P Scottish Export. So I knew that, based on points calculations, I needed to work a grain bill for 10 gallons at 16.5°P. Based on my normal 85% efficiency, I worked out the following:

18 lbs Golden Promise (Simpsons) (2.0 SRM) Grain 6 83.7 %
1 lbs 12.0 oz Crystal Light - 45L (Crisp) (45.0 SRM) Grain 7 8.1 %
1 lbs Crystal Dark - 77L (Crisp) (75.0 SRM) Grain 8 4.7 %
8.0 oz Crystal, Dark - 150L (Muntons) (150.0 SRM) Grain 9 2.3 %
4.0 oz Pale Chocolate (Thomas Fawcett) (215.0 SRM) Grain 10 1.2 %
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [7.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 11 27.6 IBUs
3.0 pkg Scottish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1728) [124.21 ml] Yeast 12 -

For the yeast, I worked out a starter targeting 1 million cells per milliliter per °P based on the 10 gal at 16.5°P (it was a ~3l starter using 3 packs of yeast), and then divded up the slurry appropriately after decanting.

As far as the partigyle, I mashed in at 1.35 qt/lb plus 2 quart deadspace addition. Based on experience, I knew this would net me ~5 gallons at 20°P for first runnings. I then did another two batch sparges, 5 gallons each, which I knew again based on experience would get me 9-10°P for the second and ~4-5°P for the third. I then worked out, assuming those numbers, the appropriate blending of the runnings to hit the preboil gravities that I wanted. I was aiming for 7.5 gallons preboil volume for each, boiled down over several hours to 5 gallons. I worked out (again based on points) 4.5 gallons of first runnings, 0.5 gallons second runnings, and 2.5 gallons third runnings would get my gravity for the Wee Heavy, and then the remainder (0.5 gallons first, 4.5 gallons second, and 2.5 gallons third) for the Export.

Then ran the numbers through Kai's simulator linked previously, was pleased to see that his numbers jived with mine.

Worked out the hopping separately, both with single 60 minute EKG additions for about 23 IBUs.

Come brew day, everything went off without a hitch and my numbers lined up almost exactly as predicted, with 5 gallons of 20°P, 4.75 gallons of 10°P (neglected the forethought that I couldn't actually fit 10 gallons of sparge water in my 10 gallon kettle once heated to sparge temp), and 5 gallons of 4.2°P, sacrificed a quart of second runnings to the Export, and then boiled side by side as planned. Outside of ending up a hair over volume on the Wee Heavy and 20.4°P and a hair under volume on the Export at 13°P (was boiling until about 3am- that's what you get starting a partigyle in the late evening). Added efficiency was going to leave me high on both anyway, so I let the Wee Heavy slide and topped the Export back to 12°P with cold filtered water. Ended up hitting about 87% efficiency instead of 85%, not unexpected giving the higher volume of sparging I was doing.

On the whole, I thought it was quite successful.

Cool. How do you do the numbers? And what is Kai's simulator?

pricelessbrewing said:

Take a look at braukauisers sheet at: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Batch_Sparge_and_Party_Gyle_Simulator

Click to expand...

TastyAdventure said:

Cool. How do you do the numbers? And what is Kai's simulator?

Click to expand...

Braukaiser AKA Kai Troester's partigyle simulator linked above. I've got my mash process down, so I knew I was going to hit 98% conversion efficiency, give or take, and then the rest is just extraction.

As far as my own math, gravity points using Plato work exactly the same as gravity points using Specific Gravity.

21*5 + 12*5 = 165/10 = 16.5, for the combined grain bill, and 165 total points for the batch.

4.5*20+0.5*9+2.5*4 = 104.5/5 = 20.9 for the Wee Heavy
0.5*20+4.5*9+2.5*4 = 60.5/5 = 12.1 for the Export. Those were the assumptions I made in the initial math, which was some trial and error to the get the ratios right.

trying my first partygyle tomorrow. first mistake was the original calculations based on less water for first runnings. my big beer will be smaller than i hoped due to that screw up, but not hugely. slightly smaller...