I ran out of CO2 way too early...

Once the beer is carbonated to satisfaction, do you guys turn the CO2 supply off or do you leave it on the whole time? My CO2 recently ran out and I only had it for 1.5 batches. It seems like it should of lasted longer. Any thoughts?

Prob a leak somewhere. I spray a star san solution on all my fittings to see if I have any leaks.

Leave it on -- you need some pressure to push the beer. To ask some obvious questions (don't take offense): What pressure do you have it at? Are you sure there are no leaks -- a spray bottle of windex or some other soapy liquid can help detect them. Was it pure CO2, or was it CO2 - nitrogen blend? If the latter, you will go through it a bit quicker, because nitrogen does not dissolve into the beer as easily as CO2.

I agree with the probablity of a leak. If you shut off your CO2 valve on the tank...and the pressure leaks down within a short period of time...You've got a leak. Start at one end and go joint by joint...until it's found. Don't forget the weep hole on the regulator. You can have a High side leak inside the regulator. You will usually notice a pressure creep on the supply gauge with this issue as well.

Nitrogen doesn't run out faster because it's absorbtion rate is slower. It's because the bottle is filled MORE with compressed gas...whereas CO2 is Liquid. You can fit a whole lot more volumes of CO2 liquid in a tank of a given size than you can a compressed gas. For example...if you pushed with pure Nitrogen...and we assume that it's not soluble...it would only take one volume of gas to push the contents. IE 5 gals of compressed gas will dispense 5 gals of beer. CO2 will disolve...so you usually disolve 2.5 volumes into solution...then push another volume to displace this cabonated liquid...or something to the effect.

Another issue to consider is where you get your tank filled. I got a fill at a local keg store one day. $15 bucks to fill a 5 lb CO2 tank. The lady had no friggin' idea what she was doing. I got it home and weighed it. I got about 2 lbs in that fill. So, weigh your tanks. Make sure you ACTUALLY started with the amt of CO2 you though you had.
Most tanks have a TARE weight stamped on them. Subtract that from the weight you measure...and that's how much CO2 is in the tank.

When you get the issue solved...you'll find it's VERY nice to have your setup balanced...so all you do is serve, and enjoy...without having to go through an entire litany of steps each time.

Chuggs, your point about perhaps getting cheated by the supplier (intentionally or otherwise) is well taken. I also am inclined to think there is a slow leak.

However, I don't agree with your statement about the solubility of nitrogen. I didn't suggest that nitrogen is insoluble, merely that it is less so than CO2. As Briggs, Hough et al state in Malting and Brewing Science, Vol II, p. 738: "Nitrogen is far less temperature sensitive than carbon-dioxide and far less soluble." Therefore, because the CO2 is getting absorbed faster than the nitrogen, you are using that at a faster rate during carbonation, leaving a higher percentage of nitrogen to push the beer.

Also, beavdowg, you don't mention what size tank you have.

As everyone has mentioned, probably a leak. The common leak points for me have been the pressure relief valve (just a light pull straightened it out), and the gas line at the coupler's barb (I bought mine from beveragefactory.com, and despite them saying that a 5/8 ID tube fits on the gas in barb, I had to crank down really hard on a quality hose clamp to stop a leak.)

I also discovered recently that the gas in and beer out post are actually specific to respective couplers. If you suspect having the posts mixed up (i'm pretty sure my kegs came to me messed up) check out this thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/difficult-time-my-ball-lock-coupler-141889/

Whenever I hook up a new keg, I make a note of the CO2 tank level and check at a few times over the course of the day to make sure pressure is holding. I don't want to loose another tank again!

Finally, make sure all your o-rings are in good shape and lubes with keg lube.

Hope that helps!

I posted something similar with my first keg adventure. I am down (from the high pressure gauge about 1000psi. So something is going on. I am hosting a homebrew happy about in a few days so I am going to bite the bullet until I get that done and do some investigation.

You can have a slow leak that just does not show up on the spray for bubbles test. Turning off your CO2 between uses if you are already carbed up is perfectly sensible. I do it when I remember. Check those damn poppets, if they have slack in the spring and bottom feet then I would change them out along with the usual o-ring swap and keg lube of everything. Also look closely at the rubber tip of the poppet for wear and tear and don't forget the pressure valve as well.

hercher said:

Chuggs, your point about perhaps getting cheated by the supplier (intentionally or otherwise) is well taken. I also am inclined to think there is a slow leak.

However, I don't agree with your statement about the solubility of nitrogen. I didn't suggest that nitrogen is insoluble, merely that it is less so than CO2. As Briggs, Hough et al state in Malting and Brewing Science, Vol II, p. 738: "Nitrogen is far less temperature sensitive than carbon-dioxide and far less soluble." Therefore, because the CO2 is getting absorbed faster than the nitrogen, you are using that at a faster rate during carbonation, leaving a higher percentage of nitrogen to push the beer.

Also, beavdowg, you don't mention what size tank you have.

Click to expand...

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that Nitrogen was insoluble...just trying to simplify.

The only point I was trying to make is that if you have two cylinders of equal volume --- the 100% CO2 cylinder will hold more liters of gas than a 100% N2 or a 75%N2 25%CO2 blend... and the only reason is you can put a whole lot of liters of co2 in that bottle because it is a liquid. The Nitrogen will stay a compressed gas.

Yes you use more liters of CO2...than you do blend or pure n2...but the bottle will not deplete faster --- there are more liters in there.

If I get a chance...I'll do the conversions. I have two bottles the same volume...one is a 20# CO2 the other is a 55 cuft Nitrogen. I can calculate how many free liters of gas are stored in each to show what I mean.

Beavdowg said:

Once the beer is carbonated to satisfaction, do you guys turn the CO2 supply off or do you leave it on the whole time? My CO2 recently ran out and I only had it for 1.5 batches. It seems like it should of lasted longer. Any thoughts?

Click to expand...

and when you say your are out of co2, you literally mean that no co2 comes out of the regulator right? or are you going based on the regulator's high pressur gauge. The high side is literally useless until its empty and reads zero.

Results...

For simplicity...I'm just comparing Nitrogen (N2) to Carbon Dioxide (CO2)

The same size container...like the ones on special here at cylindermart...

http://cylindermart.com/

Free Liters of Nitrogen in 55 cuft cylinder = 1557.426 Liters

Free Liters of Carbon Dioxide in 20# cylinder = 9071.8574 Liters

So, unless you're carbonating your beer to 5.8 volumes.(I hope not)..you'd deplete the cylinder of Nitrogen before the cylinder of carbon dioxide.

JesseRC said:

and when you say your are out of co2, you literally mean that no co2 comes out of the regulator right? or are you going based on the regulator's high pressur gauge. The high side is literally useless until its empty and reads zero.

Click to expand...

This can't be emphasized enough.

Your high pressure gauge (with the red "refill soon" zone), is useless.

The reading changes drastically based on temperature. It doesn't change at all based on how much CO2 is in the tank. It has two readings, "more than zero" and "zero". "Zero" means it's out, "more than zero" means there's probably some CO2 in there.

The ONLY way to tell if you have CO2 in your tank, and how much, is to weigh it.

hercher said:

Leave it on -- you need some pressure to push the beer. To ask some obvious questions (don't take offense): What pressure do you have it at? Are you sure there are no leaks -- a spray bottle of windex or some other soapy liquid can help detect them. Was it pure CO2, or was it CO2 - nitrogen blend? If the latter, you will go through it a bit quicker, because nitrogen does not dissolve into the beer as easily as CO2.

Click to expand...

I had it set at 10 psi after it was at about 25 psi for approx. 3 days.

JesseRC said:

and when you say your are out of co2, you literally mean that no co2 comes out of the regulator right? or are you going based on the regulator's high pressur gauge. The high side is literally useless until its empty and reads zero.

Click to expand...

Yeah, the high pressure gauge reads zero adn I can't get any gas to come out of the tank no matter how high I set the pressure at.

I also forgot to answer a previous question. I can't remember the volume of the tank. I think it's a 5 lb tank. It's the typical short one you get when you purchase a standard CO2 setup.

I should add a little more to the story. I called around my area here in Potland, OR to get prices for a tank recertification and CO2 fill. It's been about 13 years since I bought my tank and used it last. This one place said they'd test the tank and fill it for like $25, anyway it was wayyy cheaper then everywhere else. They also said they could have it back to me in just a couple days whereas everywhere else needed the tank for close to a week. When I got the tank back it didn't have any sort of stamp of certification or anything verifying that it had been tested. Looking back on the whole thing I can't help but wonder if they ever even tested it, and possibly just didn't fill it up all the way. When I got it back, though, the high pressure gauge showed almost 1000psi. I'm thinking about taking it back to them on Friday and telling them what happened. How long should a CO2 tank last on one 5 gal keg?

i'd say the most likely problem is a slow leak either at the regulator, the check valve, or the quick disconnect. happens all the time, i just found one last night as a matter of fact. as mentioned before if you spray your entire setup down with star san and check for bubbles you might spot something. if there is a leak it can usually be fixed with a hose clamp.

co2 dealer shenanigans is within the realm of possibility, but seems far less likely.

Last time mine emptied, I weighed it, then opened the valve with the reg detached and CO@ came out, weighed it again 1lb lighter. So with 1 lb in there, it wasn't enough to put any pressure into a keg. I usually carb and serve 3-4 kegs with my 5 lb'r

john from dc said:

co2 dealer shenanigans is within the realm of possibility, but seems far less likely.

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This wasn't really a "CO2 dealer" per se. It was Tina's Beer City, here in sunny Jupiter, FL. She owns a drive thru package store...sells kegs...and services the locals tanks on their Beer Meisters. She had a couple of bulk tanks and a transfill whip. She didn't know how to work the thing properly. She's happy as long as a 5# tank can dispense one keg of beer. She never checks hydro dates or anything. Place is for sell if anybody wants to own a drive thru window beer store.

Every true CO2 dealer I've ever gone to uses a tranfer pump. They meter the liquid CO2 into the tank...and weigh it as a safety check when they're done. The worst error I've had there has been about 1 1/2 lbs shy on a 50# bulk tank fill..which could be attributable to the normal error in my scale.

It's always a good habit to weigh your tanks though.

In a perfect world you can get about 22 5 Gallon kegs dispensed with a 5# CO2 bottle.

I've never come close...

http://www.micromatic.com/beer-questions/how-many-beer-kegs-dispensed-out-co2-tank-aid-89.html

chuggs said:

In a perfect world you can get about 22 5 Gallon kegs dispensed with a 5# CO2 bottle.

I've never come close...

http://www.micromatic.com/beer-questions/how-many-beer-kegs-dispensed-out-co2-tank-aid-89.html

Click to expand...

That only accounts for dispensing. We also use our kegs for carbonating which uses much more gas.

If the tank didn't come back with a date stamped right into the metal, it wasn't a good hydro test and you got ripped off if they said they would do it. In fact, if they filled the tank with a drop of CO2 and did NOT hydro test/stamp, I'd be on the phone with the D.O.T.

The gauge would read 1000 psi if they only put a few ounces of CO2 in there. That's the pressure created when liquid CO2 evaporates at room temp.

IrregularPulse said:

That only accounts for dispensing. We also use our kegs for carbonating which uses much more gas.

Click to expand...

Yup, if you figure it's 1 volume of gas to dispense, and 2-2.5 volumes of gas to carbonate, then it's around 3-3.5 volumes of gas per keg.

That brings the 22 kegs/5 lb down by a factor of 3-3.5, which is around the 6-7 kegs most people get out of them. Factor in CO2 for purging, and you're down in the 5-6 range most people actually report.