Can someone check my AG procedure?

Okay, I have done a handful of extract brews, but will be making the AG jump here in a week or two. I have read everything I can, but I wanted to make sure that my procedure is right.

Recipe:
8.00 lbs Pale Malt, Marris Otter
1.00 lbs Cara-Pils
0.25 lbs Crystal 60L
1.00 oz Chocolate Malt

1.00 oz Northern Brewer (60 min)
1.00 oz East Kent Goldings (45 min)
1.00 oz East Kent Goldings (0 min)

I have a 10 gal cooler MLT.

Procedure:

Preheat MLT - fill with near-boiling (~200F) water for ~25 minutes
Drain and add mash water, ~12 quarts at 166F
Add grain and get temp to 154F
Hold at 154F for 60 min.
Drain into bucket.
Add sparge batch, 2.4 gal at 170F (Beersmith says 168, but I have read 170 here)
Let sit for a couple of minutes, drain into bucket.
Add second sparge batch, 2.4 gal at 170 F.
Let sit for a couple of minutes, drain into bucket.
Transfer to kettle, boil and hop on schedule like with my extract brews.

Am I missing anything? What should I change? Does the recipe look okay?

Also, any suggestions for the best dry yeast for this recipe? I have never done a starter before, and I want to work on one new thing at at time. So, I would like to keep to dry yeast for now, then when I am more comfortable with the AG procedure, I will do my first starter.

Thanks!

The only thing I can really think off the top of my head is that since you have a 10 gal. MLT you should be able to combine your two sparges of 2.4 gal. each into a single sparge of 4.8 gal. without a problem. Other than that things look pretty good.

Sluggo said:

The only thing I can really think off the top of my head is that since you have a 10 gal. MLT you should be able to combine your two sparges of 2.4 gal. each into a single sparge of 4.8 gal. without a problem. Other than that things look pretty good.

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Thanks. Is combining the two batch sparges just a matter of saving time? Is there any effect on the beer for doing a single sparge or two?

Some people do 2 sparges and some do just one. I would experiement with both and see what suits you best. My experience is that 166 strike water will not get you to 154. It may have to be higher around 170-172.

You do not mention vorlaufing for clearing on the draining schedule, you will need to do this so the wort is free from grain husks.

200 degrees is too warm for preheating. There is a good chance of warping the inside of your cooler. I would use 170-175 tops.

How come 1 lb. of Carapils?

Does Beersmith say 166 for the mash water? This calculator says 170 for 70 degree grain.

Nottingham Yeast would be great for this.

Recipe looks good for an English style Pale Ale. I hope that's what you are trying for.
There's too much Cara-Pils for my taste, but that doesn't mean that it's wrong. I like the idea of an ounce of chocolate to deepen the color. I think I might try that.
I'd try delaying the first edition of EKG's by another 20 minutes, which should give you some more flavour (That's English flavor ), and you may want a tad more bittering hops. I used to use 2 oz Northern Brewer at 60, 1 oz EKG at 20, and 1 oz EKG at flameout, but that was with a slightly stronger brew, and I like hops. Perhaps an extra 1/2 oz EKG at 60 minutes, and 1/2 oz EKG for dry hopping.

For the yeast, I'd use S-04.

Now for the procedures.
It isn't necessary to preheat with 200 F water. This could possibly damage the cooler. You just need to warm the cooler up to mash temps. Probably 170 - 180.
I would use 9 qts water for the mash as recommended by Ray Daniels and others for EPA's, and probably drop the mash temp a degree or two. (The thicker mash has a similar effect to a higher mash temp.) If you do this, you will need to increase the sparge water to make up the deficit. BeerSmith shoud give you the adjusted temperatures.
For sparge water, you want it hot enough to get the grains up to 168. I'd try about 175 - 180 the first time, and make any necessary adjustments for the next brew.
After adding the sparge water, you need to give it a good stir, then let it rest a couple of minutes, then drain out a couple quarts (until the wort has no pieces of grain in it), and gently add it back to the grain bed. Then drain to the kettle.
Repeat this for the second sparge, but with slightly lower temperature as the grain bed will already be warmed up.
Why drain to a bucket? You probably have a reason, but draining straight to the kettle is the normal way.

Hope this helps,

-a.

Thanks everyone. A few responses:

1. Yeah, I forgot to include the vorlaufing step, but I know that it should be there.
2.Beersmith does say 166, but I imagine that it would be easier to start higher and cool. So, I will go with 172 or so and see how it goes.
3. The recipe isn't mine, but I don't have the link here. I think it was decribed as an English bitter, but if it comes out as an English pale ale, that will be just fine.
4. I only have one kettle, so I need to put the wort somewhere while I heat the sparge water. I figured the bottling bucket would be the best option.

Thanks for helping me get the details ironed out. I know that there is no substitute for going through the procedure, seeing what works and seeing what doesn't, but the more prepared I can be the better.

Pale Ale and Bitter are effectively the same brew.
Pale Ales are usually bottled, and Bitters are usually served from the cask

Good luck.

-a.

ajf said:

Pale Ale and Bitter are effectively the same brew.
Pale Ales are usually bottled, and Bitters are usually served from the cask

Good luck.

-a.

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Interesting. Hopefully it will turn out well.

Thanks again.

I do my first round of batch sparging @ 180-185F, 170F won't even get the grains close to 168F. I also preheat with HOT water 185F-200F no problems with warping what so ever, and I nail my mash temps.

Yeah, no need to preheat with "other" water. Use your strike water volume but go in hot at about 180. Let the cooler pull the temp down to your 168F before doughing in.

Two sparges instead of one will increase efficiency as will hot sparge water at 180F.

www.suebob.com/brew/allgrain.htm

Bobby_M said:

Two sparges instead of one will increase efficiency as will hot sparge water at 180F.

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If two sparges is more efficient than one, then three will be more efficient than two, and four more efficient than three... and infinite more efficient than infinite minus one; thus proving that fly sparging is best.
Using 180F sparge water is not necessarily a good idea. Overheating the sparge can produce some very undesirable results. If you do two sparges, and the first sparge raises the temperature to 168-170F, then a second sparge could raise the grain temperature to unsafe levels depending on the grains used, and the pH of the sparge.
Also, thicker mashes require less heat to raise the sparge temperature up to the optimum value.

-a.

ajf said:

If two sparges is more efficient than one, then three will be more efficient than two, and four more efficient than three... and infinite more efficient than infinite minus one; thus proving that fly sparging is best.
Using 180F sparge water is not necessarily a good idea. Overheating the sparge can produce some very undesirable results. If you do two sparges, and the first sparge raises the temperature to 168-170F, then a second sparge could raise the grain temperature to unsafe levels depending on the grains used, and the pH of the sparge.
Also, thicker mashes require less heat to raise the sparge temperature up to the optimum value.

-a.

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Yes, as the number of discrete infusions goes up, so does efficiency all the way up to the point of diminishing returns when the time and trouble suggest going right to fly sparging. I would not concede however that TWO infusions gets you there. It still leaves out the possibility of executing a fly sparge in an inefficient way. If I'm getting 90% using my method, fly sparging would probably be a step down for me but I will eventually try it a few times.

The first infusion gets me up to 162F and the second up to 168F. I am generalizing because 180F tends to be the norm for me though I rely on BTP to tell me exactly what I can get away with depending on the grain bill. Sometimes its 185F, sometimes 175F.

I have to agree with above tread. I usually preheat to near boiling, but was above target mashing temp. I lowered to 175 and undershot by 5 degrees. I am going to try 190-200 next time.

Your recipe, logic and probably equipment are perfect....It will never turn out

I say it looks pretty good. I agree with the higher temp on the first batch sparge. You will need hotter water than 170 to bring the entire temp up to mashout range. The only thing I would change is maybe the temp of the mash tun preheat water. I usually shoot for 160-165. Any hotter and you are getting the tun hotter than your mash rest and will possibly deform the inner plastic of the cooler. I have one warped spot in my 10 gallon cooler from 165 preheat water.

i preheat my cooler to 175 to 180. You also forgot to vorlauf....take the first runnings and redistribute them back into the cooler until they run clear so you can get the grain bed to settle. I use a 1 quart pyrex measuring pitcher. also lay tinfoil or a pie tin over the mash bed so you dont disturb the grain bed.

Another trick is to add another gallon or so of 175 degree water before you take the first runnings to raise the temp of the grain and disolve more sugars. otherwise looks pretty smooth

scinerd3000 said:

i preheat my cooler to 175 to 180. You also forgot to vorlauf....take the first runnings and redistribute them back into the cooler until they run clear so you can get the grain bed to settle. I use a 1 quart pyrex measuring pitcher. also lay tinfoil or a pie tin over the mash bed so you dont disturb the grain bed.

Another trick is to add another gallon or so of 175 degree water before you take the first runnings to raise the temp of the grain and disolve more sugars. otherwise looks pretty smooth

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I have never understood why this is helpful. What exactly does this accomplsih?

bigbellybrewery said:

I have never understood why this is helpful. What exactly does this accomplsih?

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preheaing makes it easier to hit temp dead on...vorlauf is to clear the liquid which is draining because if too much grain makes its way into the boil then astringency issues can come up causing bitter tastes....does that answer your question?