recipe critique please

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OHIOSTEVE

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5.5 gallon batch

9 lb 2 row
12 oz special B
12 oz flaked oats
8 oz crystal 40
2 oz roasted barley

Mash at 154 for 60 mins

.5 oz nugget @ 60
.5 oz centenniel at 15
.5 oz cascade @ 5

This is almost dead on a recipe I have made a few times . I wanted to "thicken" it up ( i guess that is what you guys call mouth feel) and smooth it out just touch so I added the flaked oats. and lightened the bitterness up a little.... So any suggestions or tweaks? According to beer calculus I should have
OG of 1.054
FG of 1.013
IBU 34.2
SRM 18
5.5% ABV
I have s-05....notty....s-04 that I can use.
 
Looks good. What are your mash temps? Nevermind! Somehow I missed that posted in there. Looks solid.
 
OHIO, try using a European Pilsner malt instead of the 2-row. 2-row is what is used to make the flavorless American Lagers. European Pilsner malt will add a very delicate malty flavor compared to the 2-row. A half pound or so of Marris Otter would give you a bit more malty flavor, too. The oats are a good idea for a creamy mouth feel, but why not make it a full pound? I personally enjoy the use of wheat for a nice mouth feel.
 
ThinkinDavid said:
OHIO, try using a European Pilsner malt instead of the 2-row. 2-row is what is used to make the flavorless American Lagers. European Pilsner malt will add a very delicate malty flavor compared to the 2-row. A half pound or so of Marris Otter would give you a bit more malty flavor, too. The oats are a good idea for a creamy mouth feel, but why not make it a full pound? I personally enjoy the use of wheat for a nice mouth feel.
Click to expand...

2-row has nothing to do with the flavorless-ness of the American Light Lagers. Actually, if I remember correctly, BMC usually use 6-row because it's slightly cheaper and with the amounts they are using 6-row has a higher diastatic power which offsets its slightly lower yield.

Also, there will be plenty of malty flavor in this beer. Marris Otter may mess with the SRMs as well. If you're only looking for thicker mouthfeel, I think the oats are a great choice. Try them out at 12oz and bump them up more on the next batch if it's still not where you like it.
 
Definitely no need to switch the two-row. First, you have more than enough specialty malt in there. Second, there is nothing wrong with two-row at all in any beer, it is barely a matter of preference.

Question: have you used that much Special B in the past? I found using 8 oz. really is enough for it to show, and I think my last two times using it were actually with larger overall grain bills than this one. If you haven't used that much Special B in the past, you might want to lower the amount slightly and see how you like it.

You hops look fine by me. I'm not a hophead at all, so seeing smaller hop additions makes me happy. ;)
 
WillPall said:
2-row has nothing to do with the flavorless-ness of the American Light Lagers. Actually, if I remember correctly, BMC usually use 6-row because it's slightly cheaper and with the amounts they are using 6-row has a higher diastatic power which offsets its slightly lower yield.

Also, there will be plenty of malty flavor in this beer. Marris Otter may mess with the SRMs as well.
Click to expand...

I'm going to have to defend myself here. Whether or not you think 2-row has any flavor, European Pilsner does provide a maltiness that 2-row cannot match. As for the BMC, maybe you shouldn't follow their lead. I'd like to quote Professor Surfeit from the May/June 2010 Zymurgy

"Six-row varieties in general have more enzymes, but with breeding
programs over the last few decades even two-row can have a high
degree of enzymatic power. Two-row varieties are plumper and have
more starch than six-row, in general. So, pound-for-pound you would
theoretically get more extract from two-row if you have enough enzymes
to convert."

Enzymes are not OHIO's problem, and neither is SRM. He never mentioned beer color and has 2 oz of roasted barley, anyway.

What I would really suggest if OHIO really wanted to thicken it up and smooth it out, like you said, is to replace the 2-row with European Pilsner, ditch the crystal malt altogether, and keep the rest the same. Except maybe the hop schedule. I'd even get rid of the last hop addition to get more of the malty flavor to come out.
 
Woah, sorry. Didn't mean to come off as abrasive. OHIO also never said anything about maltiness. He talked about mouthfeel. I have nothing against European Pilsner, Maris Otter, or even 6-row. I just don't think a major change to an already good recipe is warranted in this situation.

Of course, this is my opinion, which is what OHIO is looking for, some opinions on his recipe. And since I've given my opinion, I will shut up now. :mug:
 
No offense, but you did drop the BMC bomb and were totally wrong about it. Nothing in this "clarification" defends what you originally said.

With that much Special B and the roast barley, I don't see the pilsner malt coming through anyway.
 
Airborneguy said:
Definitely no need to switch the two-row. First, you have more than enough specialty malt in there. Second, there is nothing wrong with two-row at all in any beer, it is barely a matter of preference.

Question: have you used that much Special B in the past? I found using 8 oz. really is enough for it to show, and I think my last two times using it were actually with larger overall grain bills than this one. If you haven't used that much Special B in the past, you might want to lower the amount slightly and see how you like it.

You hops look fine by me. I'm not a hophead at all, so seeing smaller hop additions makes me happy. ;)
Click to expand...
As I said this is basically the exact recipe I have used in the past except for the oats and lighter on the hops. what does the special B do for ( or to lol) the beer? I am a newb so I really have no clue. This is one of my favorites I have made but there are a couple things I wanna change. I hope my ideas fix them.
 
You might want to try adding 1/2 to 1 lb of CaraPils or CaraFoam to add dextrine content. Mashing a bit higher at 156 to 158 will also produce additional unfermentable sugars that will add to mouthfeel.

Personally, I would not use the Roast Barley. I understand that 2 oz is common to add a bit of color, but I do not care for the flavor it adds.

You might want to try a batch without the Roast Barley and one with so you can determine if you like the flavor it contributes.
 
OHIOSTEVE said:
what does the special B do for ( or to lol) the beer?
Click to expand...

It's a great malt, but it can be over-powering if you use too much. It should be giving you a nice roasty, caramel flavor. If you used that amount in the past and liked it, stick with it. Why don't you change the C40 to C60 and see what you think? The 60 should round out the Special B nicely.
 
Airborneguy said:
It's a great malt, but it can be over-powering if you use too much. It should be giving you a nice roasty, caramel flavor. If you used that amount in the past and liked it, stick with it. Why don't you change the C40 to C60 and see what you think? The 60 should round out the Special B nicely.
Click to expand...

may be forced to.. I am out of 40 it seems lol!
 
Airborneguy said:
No offense, but you did drop the BMC bomb and were totally wrong about it. Nothing in this "clarification" defends what you originally said.

With that much Special B and the roast barley, I don't see the pilsner malt coming through anyway.
Click to expand...

I agree.

ThinkinDavid said:
I'm going to have to defend myself here. Whether or not you think 2-row has any flavor, European Pilsner does provide a maltiness that 2-row cannot match. As for the BMC, maybe you shouldn't follow their lead. I'd like to quote Professor Surfeit from the May/June 2010 Zymurgy

"Six-row varieties in general have more enzymes, but with breeding
programs over the last few decades even two-row can have a high
degree of enzymatic power. Two-row varieties are plumper and have
more starch than six-row, in general. So, pound-for-pound you would
theoretically get more extract from two-row if you have enough enzymes
to convert."

Enzymes are not OHIO's problem, and neither is SRM. He never mentioned beer color and has 2 oz of roasted barley, anyway.

What I would really suggest if OHIO really wanted to thicken it up and smooth it out, like you said, is to replace the 2-row with European Pilsner, ditch the crystal malt altogether, and keep the rest the same. Except maybe the hop schedule. I'd even get rid of the last hop addition to get more of the malty flavor to come out.
Click to expand...

The flavorless BMC has to do with the mass quantities of corn and rice in the beers. I have made some very malty beers from 2 row. 6-row tends to have a higher diastic power (yes I read your quote), which helps when paired with adjuncts. The corn and rice helps with the lighter body and flavor, not the base malt.

Taking the crystal out and subbing the 2row for pils malt is not going to make a maltier beer, it will be a completely different beer. If he likes the original recipe but added the oats for more body, he won't like the beer if he takes all the crystal out.
 
"Mashing a bit higher at 156 to 158 will also produce additional unfermentable sugars that will add to mouthfeel."

I was thinking that at first then thought 154 with the addition of 1lb of oats would be enough for the desired mouthfeel. Still think it's a good recipe as is.
 

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