Post your infection

wulf · Oct 17, 2015

I put the dregs in separate dme+nutrient starters 2 days prior to brewday

Quadrupled · Oct 17, 2015

joshesmusica said:
One question though for anybody who knows their stuff: what are those bigger cells that the rods seem to be surrounding/attached to? Is it just a water cell?

I've spent plenty of time using microscopes, these are just tiny air bubbles.

joshesmusica · Oct 17, 2015

Quadrupled said:
I've spent plenty of time using microscopes, these are just tiny air bubbles.

Ok, thanks. I wasn't too terribly concerned with those, but was still just curious. Without doing a gram test, is there really any way to tell by looking at those cells what organism it is? I had one guy in a different thread tell me he thought they were actually some form of wild yeast. He said likely not a sacch strain because of the more rod-shaped structure.

p_p · Oct 17, 2015

brianpablo said:
I've spent the better part of a year battling this "house strain" of mold, so I've decided I'm going to stop brewing until I figure this one out.

I'm pretty sure this is the same infection as one in the inaugural post of this thread, which talks about the flavor being "bitter but not hop bitter." When I've posted previous occurrences, folks have said it *looks* like lacto, but it has a shi**y bitterness and no sour taste.

I soak my carboys (Better bottles) in bleach solution, along with my auto-syphon, racking hose, aeration hoses, and thief. I rinse them out with hot water, and then sanitize them with Star-San. I boil my diffusion stone and then soak it in Star-San.

My solution for a long time was just to not open the damn thing for 10 days, then bottle whatever was there (it was usually all fermented by then). This meant no gravity tests, no racking to secondary, no dry-hopping. If the seal came off any time before bottling, that crud started growing and the batch was ready to feed to the fish. Whenever I bottled anything that did have crud growth, there was always a film at the top of the bottles and a very nasty bitterness. This last batch sat for three weeks without being opened and still went off, but I think the bung was a bit loose.

My theory has been that this stuff can't compete with yeast during active fermentation, because it doesn't show up until secondary or if there's been some sort of oxygen leak. All of my beers have had a faint mustiness that only I notice, which suggests to me that this thing has been there all along but can't grow if I keep the oxygen out. I have no idea if this is actually correct. I have never seen this infection take root after bottling if it wasn't already there when I bottled.

I plan to replace the carboys and use a new racking hose, auto-siphon, thief, diffusion stone, and aeration hose. It has also occurred to me that this could be coming from the wort chiller - I tend to do small batches and the coil does not get entirely immersed. Perhaps something is surviving in there despite me boiling the bottom half of the coil for 5 or 10 mins.

My only other thought is that this could somehow be airborne in the kitchen where I brew and the bathroom where I leave the carboys. This is perhaps a self-indulgent theory, as it would blame pesky floating spores rather than my own sanitation incompetence. If anyone's heard of the latter please let me know, as I'll probably have to settle for don't-open-the-damn-thing-and-put-up-with-the-musty-flavor approach, which I think I'd actually be OK with.

Thanks, Brian

Are you aerating using oxygen or an aquarium pump? Do you have an inline filter?
I remember reading a post where someone had a similar problem. It turned out there was mould in the ventilation system and was being blown around.

bishkekbadger · Oct 18, 2015

still new to brewing and wanted to know if this was an infection. its an oatmeal stout and we in the primary fermenter for seven weeks.

lowtones84 · Oct 18, 2015

That just looks like yeast or leftover krausen with some hoppy residue from what I can tell. Hope it's closed back up, or you're bottling it. Is there any reason it has been in primary for seven weeks? That's quite a long time, but should be fine.

Mx750ktm · Oct 18, 2015

Hoping for good news here, I brewed two batches pretty close to back to back and a few days ago I posted a Picture of the Smoked porter and was told it was infected. Hoping this stout looks normal to you more experienced eyes.

Not sure if this is info you would like to know, But during the boil I added Unsweetened bakers chocolate and some bitter orange peel at the end which is what i think is floating up top in one of the pictures.

Resonator · Oct 18, 2015

Mx750ktm said:
Hoping for good news here, I brewed two batches pretty close to back to back and a few days ago I posted a Picture of the Smoked porter and was told it was infected. Hoping this stout looks normal to you more experienced eyes.

Not sure if this is info you would like to know, But during the boil I added Unsweetened bakers chocolate and some bitter orange peel at the end which is what i think is floating up top in one of the pictures.

Looks like some yeasty krausen bubbles. I'd say you're fine. I don't see any pellicle or spots that look like the start of an infection

Brew_G · Oct 18, 2015

Resonator said:
Looks like some yeasty krausen bubbles. I'd say you're fine. I don't see any pellicle or spots that look like the start of an infection

Agreed.

Now close that f'ing fermenter!

brewbama · Oct 18, 2015

Brew_G said:
Now close that f'ing fermenter!

Rgr that. I think if folks would quit opening the fermenter there'd be a lot less infections!

unionrdr · Oct 18, 2015

There's some white streaky stuff between the krausen bubbles. But it could be the oils from the orange peel & chocolate.

Bryan_85 · Oct 18, 2015

Hi guys,
My beer has a strange film on the top. The picture helps, but doesn't show the film very well. I have a hop bag in it, and when I shift the hop bag, the film "bunches up" along the surface. Any idea what it could be? This is about my 30th batch over 3 years and haven't had any infections before, but I'm definitely not as sanitary as some brewers.

oh, and the details: This is an IPA. the film started in the 2nd week of fermentation. Today marks 2 weeks since brewing. Not sure if smell is often effected by infections, but seems to smell normal. Anything else I can tell you?

thanks!

PS

specharka · Oct 18, 2015

Bryan_85 said:
Hi guys,
My beer has a strange film on the top. The picture helps, but doesn't show the film very well. I have a hop bag in it, and when I shift the hop bag, the film "bunches up" along the surface. Any idea what it could be? This is about my 30th batch over 3 years and haven't had any infections before, but I'm definitely not as sanitary as some brewers.

oh, and the details: This is an IPA. the film started in the 2nd week of fermentation. Today marks 2 weeks since brewing. Not sure if smell is often effected by infections, but seems to smell normal. Anything else I can tell you?

thanks!

PS

Definitely infected. Looks like lactobacillis if I'm not mistaken.

Just curious, but did you sanitize your hop bag before you tossed it into the fermenter?

beergolf · Oct 18, 2015

Looks infected, however it is impossible to identify the infection by the look of the pellicle.

joshesmusica · Oct 18, 2015

beergolf said:
Looks infected, however it is impossible to identify the infection by the look of the pellicle.

Hahahaha, how many times do you think you've repeated this statement? Do you just have it always ready to copy and paste?

Bryan_85 · Oct 18, 2015

specharka said:
Definitely infected. Looks like lactobacillis if I'm not mistaken.

Just curious, but did you sanitize your hop bag before you tossed it into the fermenter?

thanks specharka.
I did; however, I only threw in the hops a couple of days ago (after the film had already formed).

beergolf · Oct 18, 2015

joshesmusica said:
Hahahaha, how many times do you think you've repeated this statement? Do you just have it always ready to copy and paste?

No I don't have it copied. But it is impossible to determine what bacteria is causing the infection without a microscope and a degree in microbiology.Just parroting the "It is a lacto infection" is just giving incorrect information. There are a lot of other bacteria that can make a pellicle like that.

Also it was an IPA and it has only been two weeks. Hops inhibit lacto growth. Could it be a lacto infection? Yes, possibly. But there are a lot of other infections it could be.

joshesmusica · Oct 18, 2015

beergolf said:
No I don't have it copied. But it is impossible to determine what bacteria is causing the infection without a microscope and a degree in microbiology.Just parroting the "It is a lacto infection" is just giving incorrect information. There are a lot of other bacteria that can make a pellicle like that.

Also it was an IPA and it has only been two weeks. Hops inhibit lacto growth. Could it be a lacto infection? Yes, possibly. But there are a lot of other infections it could be.

I agree, I just recently posted an infection that I assumed was lacto because it smells more like a lactic sourness than vinegar, but I had a guy comment on a different thread that he though it was a wild yeast. Without a gram test, and as you said, microbiology studies, there's no way to know. I was confused as to how it could be a lactobacillus strain too, because it was a hoppy wheat beer.

arnobg · Oct 18, 2015

Is this an infection or just yeast/fermentation? It is an Irish Red Ale and has been in primary for only 3 days now and appears fermentation is complete as the krausen dropped down by this morning.

DrunkleJon · Oct 18, 2015

Looks fine to me. Usually infections will look like an frozen over lake ice pack or like a mutant spider made a web that covers the entire surface of your beer with some gnarly looking bubbles trying to force their way through. If its 3 days old and the krausen has fallen, an infection really wouldn't have had enough time to show or do much of anything.

bishkekbadger · Oct 19, 2015

thanks for the reply. i bottled it. i rarely use a secondary fermenter to limit chances of infection and shoot for 6 weeks in the primary. too long???

unionrdr · Oct 19, 2015

6 weeks in primary is a bit long for an average gravity ale. 3-4 weeks is more typical.

lolcats · Oct 19, 2015

@arnobg

That's what it should look like when the krausen is dropping co2 bubbles and yeast rafts

moreb33rplz · Oct 19, 2015

No photos, but had to dump an entire batch. Whole cone hop made it through the strainer into primary, had a little patch of growth 4 weeks later at bottling, and then every bottle had a white film and floaties.

Farewell sweet prince.

IJesusChrist · Oct 19, 2015

moreb33rplz said:
No photos, but had to dump an entire batch. Whole cone hop made it through the strainer into primary, had a little patch of growth 4 weeks later at bottling, and then every bottle had a white film and floaties.

Farewell sweet prince.

Did you smell and taste?

joshesmusica · Oct 20, 2015

moreb33rplz said:
No photos, but had to dump an entire batch. Whole cone hop made it through the strainer into primary, had a little patch of growth 4 weeks later at bottling, and then every bottle had a white film and floaties.

Farewell sweet prince.

So you're saying that a whole cone hop was in the boil, but you were straining them out while pouring from the boil kettle into the primary, but then one of those made it into the primary still somehow?

And I gotta wonder the same thing, did you actually taste it before you dumped it, or did you just dump it because of the film?

kombat · Oct 20, 2015

moreb33rplz said:
No photos, but had to dump an entire batch. Whole cone hop made it through the strainer into primary, had a little patch of growth 4 weeks later at bottling, and then every bottle had a white film and floaties.

Farewell sweet prince.

How would a hop cone (that has been boiled!) contaminate a batch? Many people dump whole hop cones (unboiled) directly into the fermenter to dry-hop. Hops are added as a preservative - they have the opposite effect of contaminating the batch.

Either your beer was not actually infected, or it picked it up somewhere else, but I guarantee it did not get infected by leaving a boiled hop cone in it.

moreb33rplz · Oct 20, 2015

kombat said:
How would a hop cone (that has been boiled!) contaminate a batch? Many people dump whole hop cones (unboiled) directly into the fermenter to dry-hop. Hops are added as a preservative - they have the opposite effect of contaminating the batch.

Either your beer was not actually infected, or it picked it up somewhere else, but I guarantee it did not get infected by leaving a boiled hop cone in it.

I do not know what caused the contamination, but there was some growth on a hop cone that had found its way into the bucket.

I'm 99 percent sure it was infected. It tasted slightly sour, was overcarbed, had a fairly thick white film in the bottles, and floaties in every single bottle (there were not visible floaties at bottling).

Bryan_85 · Oct 20, 2015

This picture is an update on one that I posted over the wknd. The "film" that I had before has grown vertically and the smell has gotten a bit funky. Most ppl would pour these batches out, right?

Resonator · Oct 20, 2015

moreb33rplz said:
I do not know what caused the contamination, but there was some growth on a hop cone that had found its way into the bucket.

I'm 99 percent sure it was infected. It tasted slightly sour, was overcarbed, had a fairly thick white film in the bottles, and floaties in every single bottle (there were not visible floaties at bottling).

Sounds infected, but doubt the hops caused it directly. It was just probably floating and provided a space for whatever caused your infection to land, or was an old stuck hop that finally freed itself from somewhere in your brewing setup.

IJesusChrist · Oct 20, 2015

Bryan_85 said:
This picture is an update on one that I posted over the wknd. The "film" that I had before has grown vertically and the smell has gotten a bit funky. Most ppl would pour these batches out, right?

that is absolutely disgusting.

Resonator · Oct 20, 2015

Bryan_85 said:
This picture is an update on one that I posted over the wknd. The "film" that I had before has grown vertically and the smell has gotten a bit funky. Most ppl would pour these batches out, right?

Take a sample from under the film and taste it.

Bryan_85 · Oct 20, 2015

Resonator said:
Take a sample from under the film and taste it.

I was very skeptical, but did try it, and was surprised that it tasted completely normal. That makes me want to try bottling it. Any advice on how to handle the s*** on the top? just scoop it off?

Resonator · Oct 20, 2015

Bryan_85 said:
I was very skeptical, but did try it, and was surprised that it tasted completely normal. That makes me want to try bottling it. Any advice on how to handle the s*** on the top? just scoop it off?

Make sure the gravity is the same a week to a month apart first. Then just rack from under the film.

unionrdr · Oct 20, 2015

Bryan_85 said:
This picture is an update on one that I posted over the wknd. The "film" that I had before has grown vertically and the smell has gotten a bit funky. Most ppl would pour these batches out, right?

Looks like it's getting ready to crawl out of there! Never saw one like that!

IJesusChrist · Oct 20, 2015

Resonator said:
Make sure the gravity is the same a week to a month apart first. Then just rack from under the film.

Most (>50%, I have no idea actual numbers) have no real affect on flavor. But they can produce bottle bombs, as they can ferment things the yeast cannot (+CO2).

Yeah just rack under it, or scoop it off with a santitized spoon. Its not a big deal if it gets in a bottle - it will just be visually unpleasant. My roommate just bottled an infected beer and I had do drink some chunks of the first bottle for a taste test...

extra protein is what I tell myself...
extra protein.
:cross: :drunk:

....

Ginntonnix · Oct 22, 2015

This is a snapshot of a Mosaic IPA in about week 7. I've left it alone for the past few weeks in the dark, and it looked fine then. But I took the cover off of it today to dry hop and noticed "patches" on the surface and potentially something floating, along with what looks like hop residue along the sides.

Is this an infection? What do the experts think? Appreciate it!

IJesusChrist · Oct 23, 2015

Ginntonnix said:
This is a snapshot of a Mosaic IPA in about week 7. I've left it alone for the past few weeks in the dark, and it looked fine then. But I took the cover off of it today to dry hop and noticed "patches" on the surface and potentially something floating, along with what looks like hop residue along the sides.

Is this an infection? What do the experts think? Appreciate it!

Could be. Take a closer pic if possible. Doesn't look likes hops to me..

joshesmusica · Oct 23, 2015

Ginntonnix said:
This is a snapshot of a Mosaic IPA in about week 7. I've left it alone for the past few weeks in the dark, and it looked fine then. But I took the cover off of it today to dry hop and noticed "patches" on the surface and potentially something floating, along with what looks like hop residue along the sides.

Is this an infection? What do the experts think? Appreciate it!

7 week! Holy get to bottling quicker man! Seriously though, you're almost defeating the purpose of it being an ipa when waiting that long, especially if you're bottling. Dr hopping will help, but you're losing so much of what you did in the boil by waiting that long. And if that's not primary, but you racked to secondary, if you introduced any oxygen, it's likely to hurt the effects of the hops even more!

It looks like it could possibly be, but need a better pic to tell.

Ginntonnix · Oct 23, 2015

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the input. I used to be a pretty prolific brewer until about a year ago... which corresponds with the birth of my daughter. Kids are awesome, but they are very high maintenance, so taking several hours to brew seemed unkind.

This was my first batch in a year and it's been difficult to stay on the proper timeframe, hence letting it slide longer than usual. I was probably sloppier than I should have been and I'm afraid my brew gear may have caught something in storage.

I took two more pictures today - to my untrained eye it looks like something is progressing. Bottle this weekend, wait to bottle until this finishes, or throw it out?

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