Did you break even yet?

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fbaillargeon

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Guys, I was wondering about economics for a few days now.

I haven't counted but I am on my 20th batch of ale with my current all grain setup.

Everything and the kegerator set me back 1500$ But I was thinking that since craft beer is around 5$ a pint in bars or bottled (it's almost the same price due to bottling, transport etc) around my neck of the woods, I am around 2500$ ahead compared to buying it.

What about you guys?:confused:
 
I don't try and break even on my hobbies...I'm not going to even try and fool myself that I'm getting ahead brewing versus buying. I have probably broken even if I only take into account equipment costs only (esp. my ghetto setup!), but when you take into account the value of your time-forget it.
 
Oh yeah, I'm not accounting for time, but neither am I when I am cooking instead of going to the restaurant though.
 
I think I have broken even....maybe even made a little bit back.
 
I have more than broken even here in Japan where prices for a good craft beer at a store (or on the Internet) runs from $4 (Japanese craft beers) to $7+ (imported craft beers).
 
Noob here, I've brewed all of 2 batches, so I am in the hole right now. I guess I'll just have to keep brewing until this pays off.
 
What kills my wallet are the miscellaneous expenses. A broken hydrometer here, new bottle/carboy brush there, surprise leak in bottling wand, etc. All little things, but they add up.

Also, I have trouble calculating if I'm actually saving money using the $5 a pint out vs. 25 cents at home, because I'm much more likely to have an extra beer or two at home, so I go through 5 gallons of homebrew way faster than I would go through 5 gallons of beer if I only drank at bars. I probably get to enjoy more beer because of the decreased cost than if I only drank commercial beers, but I don't think I'm near breaking even.

That said, I brew because I love it, and even if it really broke the bank I would still probably find a way to brew, even if it were a once-a-year ritual.
 
Not even close. Not even close if I exclude the cost of the kegerator. I haven't even stopped buying craft beer.

I never got into this to save money, so I'm ok with it. I don't think I'll ever break even anyways, I like giving out my beer.
 
Yes. It's very easy to break even in Quebec because of the outrageous prices beer commands. Cheap beer is almost always 1$/beer, even in cases.

It helps if you have a ghetto setup and never upgrade anything though.
 
Many people find themselves buying more commercial beer after starting to homebrew. In the name of research, of course.

And, as you brew more beer and the marginal cost of consumption falls, you'll most likely consume more than you otherwise would have; thus, you cannot simply compare marginal costs per bottle - you also need to adjust for change in volume of consumption.

I find it helps to think of this analysis as a "hobby subsidy" instead of trying to be 100% cost-justified.
 
It's true that Quebec has insane prices, but then again, my addiction feeds the free hospitals, so that's fine by me. Homebrew is still cheap as peanuts since it's ingredients are tax free.
 
I originally sold some old junk on Craigslist to get started. Then I bought some used stuff for cheap! Then I sold some of it then bought more etc. etc..... I got all my stuff for free pretty much. Except all my work and time I put into buying and selling. I recently had to sell my kegerator. I made $650. Boooyah
 
When the word "hobby" is included in the description, that should tell you all you need to know.
I never really considered trying to break even or to justify the cost of my brewing because I truly consider this a hobby.
The cost of this hobby is offset by the gratification I get from brewing really good beer and bolstered by the approval of my friends and family.
It doesn't help that I am a gadget freak. :)

If it is your goal to break even you can do it. Keep your equipment to a minimum and buy ingredients in bulk.
 
No way I will ever break even unless I cash out of the hobby due to equipment cost.
I am always expanding on equipment, but no longer buying cheap consumable equipment like plastic buckets.
Now I think of it as an investment since the stainless equipment that I am buying now does not seem to be going down in value.

As far as ingredients go, I have been buying bulk grain in group buys, hops by the pound, and save my yeast in the freezer for multiple generations.
This has brought down the cost per batch down considerably; but I brew twice as often. I have gained 30lbs since I started doing this!
Also, my "research" budget is much higher than than a couple cases of Keystone Light.

All things considered I would say that I spend as much now on beer as I did in college 10 years ago; but my tastes have changed as has the environment that I enjoy it in.
 
I've actually made money brewing! My brewther and I have been snagging up good brewing related equipment deals and then re-selling them and have not only paid for all of our equipment and around 50 or so batches "mostly 12g" but have made enough extras to keep our wives off of our backs, well for the most part..ha..ha..
 
Are you on drugs? HA...

No where near even since for the first 10 years I did Extract (with steeping) which cost about the same as buying it in a store.

Now I am All-Grain and it will take years to even touch the three grand of equipment I bought.

All the following is rough estimates but:

So it used to cost 40-50 bucks (depending) and I was brewing 10 gallon batches so 80-100 bucks a batch.

Now with All-Grain I have it down to under $40 a batch (easy) so my beer is half the cost it was before.

That and I am now doing a lot of Milds/Brown, Bitters, Kolschs, Hefeweisens, and Stouts with low ABV so low material costs.

Yeast is about the only thing I am still spending a lot of money on... (I plan to start harvsting)...

DPB
 
I find it's always hard to be totally honest about costs unless you keep meticulous notes. The little things slip through the cracks too easily, and they add up to a lot in aggregate. I have a spreadsheet with literally everything I've ever bought for brewing (ingredients, equipment, even stuff I don't use anymore unless it's been re-purposed elsewhere in life) and I'm sitting pretty at $3.20/pint after 21 5g. batches. And I consider myself a fairly budget minded brewer (no bling, cheap chinese SS pots upgraded to chopped kegs for AG, plastic fermenters, still on my original auto-siphon and tubing, diy immersion chiller, one tap in a dual-purpose kegerator/fermenter). If you look at just ingredients (I don't buy bulk) I'm at $1.00/pint.
 
I don't think I will ever break even let alone get ahead and I don't mind. I enjoy the homemade goodness of my brews and I figure that offsets any spending I do.
 
So coming up on my 1 year homebrewing anniversary:

FREE -- 1x 1650W turkey fryer (my first BIAB setup)


FREE -- Propane Burner / Kettle Combo (My second BIAB setup)
$35 -- Weldless Thermometer
$40 -- Weldless Ball Valve
$10 -- Step drill bit
$100 -- 2x new Blue Rhino Tanks, filled
$20 -- Blue Rhino refill
$80 -- 4x 5 gallon Off-brand Better Bottles
$110 -- 4x 6 gallon Better Bottles
$25 -- Corona Mill & stainless parts from the Depot

FREE -- Refrigerator
$25 -- 4x economy taps on sale
$20 -- Various Hoses
$30 -- 4-way gas manifold
$10 -- Bulkhead for external CO2
$140 -- 4x Corny Kegs
$40 -- 4x Keg rebuild kits
$40 -- 2x crap 20# CO2 tanks
$20 -- Exchanging those crap tanks for filled new ones



For recipes I do a little averaging --

I've done 23x 5.5 gallon recipes and 2x Apple Wines which gets me about 130 gallons of product. I assume each recipe averages out to $20 in materials (which is probably overestimating) so I spent $500 on materials. 130 gallons = 1040 US pints

I call $4/pint the retail price even though I've done DIPA/Imperial Stouts which would fetch $5+ / tulip glass in retail. So I've produced $4100+ of beer in the past year.

Total cost above is in the $1000+ range. Even if I double that and include all the fancy White Labs yeast, my inventory of hops & grain, 50 ft immersion chiller, pond pump, another 4 backup kegs, BIAB equipment, measurement devices, StarSan, Fermentation mini-fridge w. Johnson controller, etc. -- I still doubled or more my investment vs retail. I also used to go to bars for beer 2-3 times per week and spend another $100-$200 at the liquor store per month on craft beers. I still get craft brews from time-to-time but it's fairly insignificant in terms of price now.

I bought almost everything second hand and did everything DIY. I recently started buying base grains in bulk and milling my own grain which will bring the recipe prices down. I also lucked out getting the fridge, fryer, and burner kits for free. I also kept it simple with a single-vessel BIAB process.

Overall I feel like my hobby is also a sound investment. Now that I have all my gear already, all I'm buying month-to-month is the consumable goods (grain, hops, yeast, CO2, Star San, propane, and replacing the occasional melted/molded mesh bag). I also reuse bottles when I do bottle from time-to-time. I have no interest in upgrading anything at the moment or for the rest of the year. I will probably add a sight glass to the kettle but other than that, I like my gear and my process.

Now if I splurged and bought everything brand new, retail, and pre-assembled and went with a three-tier pump setup, I can imagine barely breaking even for the year.

=============================================

Dammit now I'm all curious about my expenses:

Mint.com says I've spent $1642 at Austin Homebrew Supply
I'll add another $250 for times I bought with cash. Call it $2000 for sanity's sake.

$2000 total expenses from AHS
$500-$700 for all the stuff I got off CraigsList or the HBT Classifieds

Not quite doubled my investment but it's still definitely a win.....
 
Subsailor said:
I don't think I will ever break even let alone get ahead and I don't mind. I enjoy the homemade goodness of my brews and I figure that offsets any spending I do.
Click to expand...

And since I went All-Grain I am actually trying to follow the rules:

  1. Write everything down.
  2. Don't change the recipe half way through a batch
  3. Understand the science better
  4. Don't "SWAG" it.

Basically learn one new skill each time I brew from:

  • Cleaning
  • Sanitation
  • Recipe development and expected outcome (Grain and Hops)
  • Mashing
  • Sparging Calculations
  • Boiling Times
  • Wort transfer protocol
  • Chilling
  • Yeast
  • Fermenting (and lagering)
  • Kegging and bottling

There are things to read on all these subjects and I am trying to put it all together...

I had some luck recently with a Kolisch and English Mild but ten I undercarbonated a 10 Gallon batch because I did the calculations in my head and not on paper...

SO brewing is:

  1. Plan
  2. Work the Plan
  3. Write down any changes to the Plan (NOW, not later)


...and consume the Plan...
 
If you're a brewing maniac, you're not going to ever save any money unless you go commercial.

The amount of equipment and random items to better my setup will ALWAYS offset any savings I had. Brewing is a hobby, not an economic exercise.
 
DPBISME said:
And since I went All-Grain I am actually trying to follow the rules:

  1. Write everything down.
  2. Don't change the recipe half way through a batch
  3. Understand the science better
  4. Don't "SWAG" it.

Basically learn one new skill each time I brew from:

  • Cleaning
  • Sanitation
  • Recipe development and expected outcome (Grain and Hops)
  • Mashing
  • Sparging Calculations
  • Boiling Times
  • Wort transfer protocol
  • Chilling
  • Yeast
  • Fermenting (and lagering)
  • Kegging and bottling

There are things to read on all these subjects and I am trying to put it all together...

I had some luck recently with a Kolisch and English Mild but ten I undercarbonated a 10 Gallon batch because I did the calculations in my head and not on paper...

SO brewing is:

  1. Plan
  2. Work the Plan
  3. Write down any changes to the Plan (NOW, not later)


...and consume the Plan...
Click to expand...


Changing the recipe half-way through is half the fun!


Nah, really though, tinkering with a recipe is really fun, especially when something doesn't go to plan (ie. you forget your Hallertau hops for your wheat, so instead you use Magnum and Centennial and make a pale wheat).
 
Breaking even really depends on how you count your brewing time. If you are counting time spent in the costs column, then you'll be very unlikely to break even--ever. Because I count my brewing time and tinkering time as entertainment, I think it would be reasonable to compare it against similarly enjoyable activities. Movies cost $8 for two hours. A round of golf costs $25. A brew on premises place might charge $200-300 for a brewing session. So, every brewing session I do at home, rather than at the brew on premises place saves me $200-300. Counting it this way, I broke even in my first year of brewing.

"So convienent a thing it is to be a reasonable creature, since it enables one to find or make a reason for everything one has a mind to do."
-Ben Franklin
 
much easier for us Canadians to break even. i've got a complete AG setup dedicated fridge and draught setup. and i wouldn't say i'm all that far in the hole. but i see the money i save my family who drink alot of my stuff as savings to. i make alot of beer/cider i've got 15 gals of cider, 5 gqals of skeeter pee and 10 gals of beer on the go right now.
cheapest 6 pack i can find is 8$ which is just over 1$/beer. but its honestly undrinkable. its the stuff homeless people buy.. seriously.. horse piss..
i typicaly drank stella@ 14$/6pack.. which adds up fast..
 
rhamilton said:
So coming up on my 1 year homebrewing anniversary:

FREE -- 1x 1650W turkey fryer (my first BIAB setup)


FREE -- Propane Burner / Kettle Combo (My second BIAB setup)
$35 -- Weldless Thermometer
$40 -- Weldless Ball Valve
$10 -- Step drill bit
$100 -- 2x new Blue Rhino Tanks, filled
$20 -- Blue Rhino refill
$80 -- 4x 5 gallon Off-brand Better Bottles
$110 -- 4x 6 gallon Better Bottles
$25 -- Corona Mill & stainless parts from the Depot

FREE -- Refrigerator
$25 -- 4x economy taps on sale
$20 -- Various Hoses
$30 -- 4-way gas manifold
$10 -- Bulkhead for external CO2
$140 -- 4x Corny Kegs
$40 -- 4x Keg rebuild kits
$40 -- 2x crap 20# CO2 tanks
$20 -- Exchanging those crap tanks for filled new ones



For recipes I do a little averaging --

I've done 23x 5.5 gallon recipes and 2x Apple Wines which gets me about 130 gallons of product. I assume each recipe averages out to $20 in materials (which is probably overestimating) so I spent $500 on materials. 130 gallons = 1040 US pints

I call $4/pint the retail price even though I've done DIPA/Imperial Stouts which would fetch $5+ / tulip glass in retail. So I've produced $4100+ of beer in the past year.

Total cost above is in the $1000+ range. Even if I double that and include all the fancy White Labs yeast, my inventory of hops & grain, 50 ft immersion chiller, pond pump, another 4 backup kegs, BIAB equipment, measurement devices, StarSan, Fermentation mini-fridge w. Johnson controller, etc. -- I still doubled or more my investment vs retail. I also used to go to bars for beer 2-3 times per week and spend another $100-$200 at the liquor store per month on craft beers. I still get craft brews from time-to-time but it's fairly insignificant in terms of price now.

I bought almost everything second hand and did everything DIY. I recently started buying base grains in bulk and milling my own grain which will bring the recipe prices down. I also lucked out getting the fridge, fryer, and burner kits for free. I also kept it simple with a single-vessel BIAB process.

Overall I feel like my hobby is also a sound investment. Now that I have all my gear already, all I'm buying month-to-month is the consumable goods (grain, hops, yeast, CO2, Star San, propane, and replacing the occasional melted/molded mesh bag). I also reuse bottles when I do bottle from time-to-time. I have no interest in upgrading anything at the moment or for the rest of the year. I will probably add a sight glass to the kettle but other than that, I like my gear and my process.

Now if I splurged and bought everything brand new, retail, and pre-assembled and went with a three-tier pump setup, I can imagine barely breaking even for the year.

=============================================

Dammit now I'm all curious about my expenses:

Mint.com says I've spent $1642 at Austin Homebrew Supply
I'll add another $250 for times I bought with cash. Call it $2000 for sanity's sake.

$2000 total expenses from AHS
$500-$700 for all the stuff I got off CraigsList or the HBT Classifieds

Not quite doubled my investment but it's still definitely a win.....
Click to expand...

and after all that, you missed the largest expense: LABOR. All of that time spent brewing, buying, making/DIY, preparing, cleaning, storing, bottling, searching Craigslist, cleaning some more, reading books/magazines, etc., etc.

For S&Gs: estimate the average number of hours per week you spend doing all of those things related to brewing and multiply it by your hourly wage you get paid at work (if salaried you will have to do some more math)...I'm fairly confident you won't have "doubled your investment".

One could argue that your work hourly wage doesn't translate to your weekend/time off wage (after all, you wouldn't work all of the time)....but the point is your time is still worth something on the weekends....time spent brewing is time away from household chores, home improvement, time with family, etc.

TL;DR: Time is money.
 
jfr1111 said:
Yes. It's very easy to break even in Quebec because of the outrageous prices beer commands. Cheap beer is almost always 1$/beer, even in cases.

It helps if you have a ghetto setup and never upgrade anything though.
Click to expand...

If you think that's bad, even BMC beers here in Saskatchwean are $40 for 24 ($1.67 each)

my cheap beginner beer consists of
$20 - base kit
$3.50 RO water
$10 -DME
$4 - hops
= 37.50 / 60ish 355ml bottles = 63 cents (38% of store bought price)

Now, I definitely drink more home brew than I would buy (because it's cheaper) so I can't quite make the argument that I'm making back $1.04 every bottle (or $62 per batch if you prefer) but it is significant.


I keep "breaking even" then going and getting cooler equipment and supplies.

This is a really cheap hobby though. Think about golf. Time isn't money. Do you calculate how much golf costs per hour on the course?
Don't sweat it if you're a bit "behind".
 
I keep buying new equipment, so any chance I have of breaking even is continuously pushed farther and farther away :)

plus I still buy craft beer, and drink at bars.
 
I can't even contemplate breaking even. Since I started throwing malted barley extracts into buckets with yeast I've been drinking more beer than ever before.

I was never a big beer lover, most likely because of the shortage of good beer. My brother used to work for a tiny brewery many many years ago and I used to enjoy the beers they made there. Because it was far away I obnly had their beers when he was home. Now not only do I have some very drinkable beer comming out of the afore mentioned buckets, but I have a palate that needs educating. For palate education I have been visiting way out places to buy imports and craft brews. I was shocked to find that there are so many craft brews in South Africa now.
 
I'm way ahead. If I had to buy beer I would drink significantly less. I don't spend much on my brewery anymore and I never have. Almost all of my brewing expense in on ingredients.
 
when you make a cherry vanilla milk stout. Your cost savings goes into the negative :D
 
I used to try to calculate such nonsense and foolery, but have since realized that it doesn't really matter one way or the other.
 
At the rate I am going and spending I think 2075 is my target year. I brew because I enjoy it and like to consume what I make. I don't do it to save money. That being said I just upgraded my brewery and sunk a ton of cash but I am now buying grain in bulk, buy hops by the pound and harvest some of my yeast. The raw material is not my expense it's all the "stuff" I have gotten.

I also currently grow my own hops (not enough) and I am working on plans to grow 1/4 acre of barley. But now I need to build a way malt and store it. Expand and Spend!
 
I'm really surprised how few of the hbrs out there actually save money brewing. I'm realistically into the hobby for under a grand and have since brewed around 40 batches. Ballparking my cost per batch at $40 versus the $80 it would cost for the commercial equivalent I'd say I'm well past breaking even. I should do significantly better next year as I'm going to stock up on bulk hops purchases and I'll no longer have to make any large equiptment purchases. I really have no desire at this point to purchase flashy equiptment but I certainly understand others desire to do so. I find it makes for a happy wife is I appear frugal.
 
I can't imagine how much I have spent on equipment - but the batch I just brewed...a rye pale ale...cost me $19.41 according to Brewsmith.

Theres bulk grain and hops to thank for that - but a lot of capital expenditure in the process.
 

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