yeast starter won't start

ok, I have a yeast starter made from LME (1.050 gravity) + WLP001 (california ale). Pitched the yeast in cooled, but unaerated starter wort. I remembered after 12 hours that I have forgotten to aerate, so I shook the hell out of the bottle while the yeast was in there....

Now it's been 72 hours, the thing looks dead. No activity, no signs of life.

My brew day is getting close, and I have to make a back up plan. First of all, I would be very disappointed if this strain is ruined because I heard it's a very good yeast, and I was looking forward to use it in my nut brown ale.

My question is - how long should I wait until I can be completely sure it will not start?

And of course, I will make a back up starter today just in case, but don't know what yeast to use because I only have dry yeasts (US-05, S-04 and Notthingam)

Thanks

Dunno about WLP001. Never had a yeast take that long. But, for those dry yeasts, you don't need to make a starter. It's just not necessary with dry yeasts.

MattHollingsworth said:

Dunno about WLP001. Never had a yeast take that long. But, for those dry yeasts, you don't need to make a starter. It's just not necessary with dry yeasts.

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what about rehydration? I read on their website that it is recommended....

By now I never made a starter from dry yeast, always having good results. But I'm really sorry for this WLP001, I heard it's a very good yeast... unfortunately I only had one vial of this strain...

400d said:

what about rehydration? I read on their website that it is recommended....

By now I never made a starter from dry yeast, always having good results. But I'm really sorry for this WLP001, I heard it's a very good yeast... unfortunately I only had one vial of this strain...

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I don't use dried yeast (tried US-05 twice, hated it), but from what I've gathered from people here, some people rehydrate, some don't and it sounds like it makes very little difference. I would do it if I used dry yeast, though, just because I'm crazy about stuff like that.

WLP001 is great. It's pretty much the same as Wyeast 1056, though. Don't know if your WLP001 is viable or not. If not, maybe try ordering 1056 next time.

You ordering from these guys?

http://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/

I've ordered maybe 9 or so yeasts from them, both White Labs and Wyeast and all of them have worked. But it's now starting to get too warm for me to order. I order when it's cooler earlier in the spring or in October or November....

What temp did you hold your starter at?

MattHollingsworth said:

I don't use dried yeast, but from what I've gathered from people here, some people rehydrate, some don't and it sounds like it makes very little difference. I would do it if I used dry yeast, though, just because I'm crazy about stuff like that.

WLP001 is great. It's pretty much the same as Wyeast 1056, though. Don't know if your WLP001 is viable or not. If not, maybe try ordering 1056 next time.

You ordering from these guys?

http://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/

I've ordered maybe 9 or so yeasts from them, both White Labs and Wyeast and all of them have worked. But it's now starting to get too warm for me to order. I order when it's cooler earlier in the spring or in October or November....

What temp did you hold your starter at?

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I do order from hopandgrape, and as a matter of fact, the yeast that I am mentioning as problematic (WLP001) is from them. But I got three vials in the same parcel from them, and two of them worked great (other strains). I got the yeast while it was colder, the expiration date is ok (Jul, 2010)....

The irony about it is that I didn't make a starter with other two yeasts, just pitched directly to wort from the vial, and had fast and efficient fermentations....

Now I made a starter, and nothing is happening...

The only thing that might be a problem is that I took the vial from the fridge only one hour prior to pitching, but i shook and rubbed the vial long enough to get it to room temperature....

It might be a temperature shock, but I really doubt it.... One hour is not a short time....

400d said:

I do order from hopandgrape, and as a matter of fact, the yeast that I am mentioning as problematic (WLP001) is from them. But I got three vials in the same parcel from them, and two of them worked great (other strains). I got the yeast while it was colder, the expiration date is ok (Jul, 2010)....

The irony about it is that I didn't make a starter with other two yeasts, just pitched directly to wort from the vial, and had fast and efficient fermentations....

Now I made a starter, and nothing is happening...

The only thing that might be a problem is that I took the vial from the fridge only one hour prior to pitching, but i shook and rubbed the vial long enough to get it to room temperature....

It might be a temperature shock, but I really doubt it.... One hour is not a short time....

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What temp is it at? Could you have missed the starter fermenting? Sometimes they finish up in 12-16 hours. Is the starter milkier looking than it was before?

I've never experienced temperature shock from pitching into a warmer solution without warming the yeast first.

MattHollingsworth said:

What temp is it at? Could you have missed the starter fermenting? Sometimes they finish up in 12-16 hours. Is the starter milkier looking than it was before?

I've never experienced temperature shock from pitching into a warmer solution without warming the yeast first.

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The temperature is around 20°C (68 F) It's not "milkier" but I can see yeast sediment on the bottom of the bottle which has not changed volume from what I had at the beginning....

I might have missed it fermenting only if it could finish in 8 hours.... But in this case I should have at least very thin krauzen ring, shouldn't I? I will check the gravity today just in case....

Sometimes there is very little visible activity, but that said, I have always seen something. Even if it's just a few bubbles going up the side.

Do what you said and check the gravity and see if it's dropped. You may have just missed it.

What I would do in your situation is chill the starter down to drop the yeast, decant the wort, and then put some fresh wort on top. See if that shows any activity. If it does, you're good to go.

You can do this for your upcoming brew if it you have enough time, but if not you'll be good with the 05. That's a great yeast. Just make sure you rehydrate it. If you just sprinkle it on the top you cut your viability in half right off the bat.

I wouldn't give up on your WLP001 just yet though.

Agreed on checking the gravity and decanting and putting fresh wort in there...

just checked the gravity, it's been over 80 hours, it's still as it was at the beginning, so I assume the yeast is dead...

Now I only have to choose from dry yeasts that I have - S-04, US-05 or Notthingam?

I repeat that I'm making an extract batch for the first time in my life. It's a muntons nut brown ale....

What would you guys use?

I'd use the S-04, as a brown ale traditionally calls for a distinctive English yeast. It should give some fruity/malty tones at the recommended fermentation temps.

But since you initially wanted to use WLP001, you would replace that with US-05, its dry yeast equivalent.


(and sorry to hear about the dead yeast babies)

midfielder5 said:

I'd use the S-04, as a brown ale traditionally calls for a distinctive English yeast. It should give some fruity/malty tones at the recommended fermentation temps.

But since you initially wanted to use WLP001, you would replace that with US-05, its dry yeast equivalent.


(and sorry to hear about the dead yeast babies)

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Sounds about right.

Davor, if you use these Fermentis yeasts, ferment on the cooler side, say 62-64 or something. I personally know that US-05 kicks out a lot of esters at anything 65 or above, at least that was my experience. And I've read a LOT about S-04 also being very estery if you ferment warmer. So be careful to not get them above 65. At least that's my two cents.

thanks Matt, I'll try to do that!

it's me again, brewed a batch after my starter failed and decided to use Nottingham yeast.

By now I didn't have any experience with this yeast, so I wanted to try it...

I sprinkled it directly to wort. After approx. 10 hours I had a small krauzen, and after 24 hours I have big nice krauzen.

The problem is that there are no bubbles in the airlock....

I'm not worried because I can see signs of fermentation, and I'm sure it is fermenting, but, comparing this to my previous experience with having krauzen this big, it's a bit odd not to have very intense airlock activity....

Where is all CO2 from the process?

My carboy is well sealed, and I'm sure there is no leak.

The ambient temperature is a bit high (around 72 F), so I keep my carboy in a bucket filled with water and ice.

The temperature of the cooling water is 62 F (I want clean and crisp flavor) and I'm pretty good at keeping this temperature steady by adding more ice every once in a while.

I wonder, if the temperature of the cooling water is 62 F, is there a possibility that fermenting beer in carboy is cooler than that? I'm adding ice all the time...

I'm afraid that I might slow down the yeast too much if it's too cool in there, though I heard Nottingham is quite resistant to low temps...

where is the CO2?!