Honey Yeast Starter?

Can i use honey in a yeast starter, or should i stick to DME?

It would probably work, but I don't think the yeast you produced would be as healthy without all the nutrients provided by the malt. Also, seems like a waste of honey.

DME would provide much more for the yeast to feed on. Honey, on the other hand, just doesn't provide enough to make a good starter. That's why it's not hard to make beer without additional nutrients but it's difficult to ferment honey without nutrients.

The lack of nutrients was also the first thing that came to mind.

what nutrients are in DME that are lacking in honey?

pickledherring said:

what nutrients are in DME that are lacking in honey?

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Well, I'm not sure! I know when I make mead, the instructions always say to use yeast nutrient especially DAP, because honey doesn't have much in the way of nutrients.

To me, that's not the main concern, though. In my mind, you want the yeast to grow, reproduce, and be ready to ferment your wort. The primary sugar you want to ferment is maltose, and honey has none. So, even if you add nutrients to your yeast starter, you've got a bunch of yeast that is accustomed to eating simple sugars, not maltose. I would go without a starter rather than using sugar or honey in one.

DME, being made from barley is fairly rich in nutrients such as calcium, potassium, magnesium and nitrogen to name a few. Remember than barley is a cereal grain, and cereal grains have more going for them than carbohydrates. Honey on the other hand is almost all water and carbohydrates. I believe that over 99% of honey consists of those two things. You could probably add nutrients such as DAP and make a successful starter, but DME still seems like the better method. Are you making a mead or do you just have a bunch of honey to spare?

NEITHER!!! My wife and i were debating while in preparation for today's brew.
she believes that we are using a good quality honey, and that honey has tons of nutrients so it should be ok, i believe that DME is proven and that yeast needs certain nutrients not necessarily the nutrients in honey.
so i did 1/2 DME, and 1/2 honey as a compromise.

+1 to what Yooper said. You could make a starter out of honey and even add yeast nutrients and the yeast would have everything it needs to continue its life cycle. However, you're making it too easy on the yeast and they can lose their ability to ferment higher sugars.

Consequences? Imagine adding this yeast to a 1.050 batch and it finishes at 1.030 after all the simple sugars are gone.

http://www.mrmalty.com/starter_faq.htm
Use an all malt wort for starters. The sugar in the starter needs to be maltose, not simple sugar. Yeast that have been eating a lot of simple sugars stop making the enzyme that enable it to break down maltose, which is the main sugar in wort. The yeast quickly learn to be lazy and the ability to fully attenuate a batch of beer suffers.



More yeast info:
http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/yeast-propagation-and-maintenance-principles-and-practices

More...
http://www.danstaryeast.com/library/

+1 on what others have said. A starter made from honey will give you a bunch of yeast that are conditioned to ferment simple sugar from honey and they'll likely lag and have trouble fermenting out the maltose in your wort.

danielinva said:

DME, being made from barley is fairly rich in nutrients such as calcium, potassium, magnesium and nitrogen to name a few. Remember than barley is a cereal grain, and cereal grains have more going for them than carbohydrates. Honey on the other hand is almost all water and carbohydrates. I believe that over 99% of honey consists of those two things. You could probably add nutrients such as DAP and make a successful starter, but DME still seems like the better method. Are you making a mead or do you just have a bunch of honey to spare?

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Your correct about DME but never use DAP as a yeast nutrient. It should only be added to the primary. DAP KILLS YEAST. I'm a purist. I make cider starters with a 1:1 cider/water ratio and mead starters with a 1:4 honey/water ratio. I typically use white labs WLP720 and add 1/2 tbsp. of generic yeast nutrient. Wine nutrient works fine too. Remember to use spring water or tap water. DO NOT BOIL! If you must boil to remove cholramines, add calcium carbonate at .2 grams/liter and let cool to 180F before adding honey. I.E. For a 5 gallon batch of sweet sack mead(18# honey) I'll make a 2 liter starter with 4 cups water and 8 fl.oz. of unpasteurized honey. Once it's cooled to 70-75F, I add 1 tsp. yeast nutrient and 1 tbsp. L. DME. Some and yeast energizer, but this is unnecessary if using a stir plate or shaking thoroughly 2-3 days prior to making your mead. I spin on the stir plate overnight and prefer a sanitized foam stopper to Al foil. Once fermentation is evident, siphon off most of the liquid, leaving an once or so to make a slurry, then pitch!

HoptimismWill2003 said:

Your correct about DME but never use DAP as a yeast nutrient. It should only be added to the primary. DAP KILLS YEAST. I'm a purist. I make cider starters with a 1:1 cider/water ratio and mead starters with a 1:4 honey/water ratio. I typically use white labs WLP720 and add 1/2 tbsp. of generic yeast nutrient. Wine nutrient works fine too. Remember to use spring water or tap water. DO NOT BOIL! If you must boil to remove cholramines, add calcium carbonate at .2 grams/liter and let cool to 180F before adding honey. I.E. For a 5 gallon batch of sweet sack mead(18# honey) I'll make a 2 liter starter with 4 cups water and 8 fl.oz. of unpasteurized honey. Once it's cooled to 70-75F, I add 1 tsp. yeast nutrient and 1 tbsp. L. DME. Some and yeast energizer, but this is unnecessary if using a stir plate or shaking thoroughly 2-3 days prior to making your mead. I spin on the stir plate overnight and prefer a sanitized foam stopper to Al foil. Once fermentation is evident, siphon off most of the liquid, leaving an once or so to make a slurry, then pitch!

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Not sure if this is great advice, but it is 5 1/2 years late for this thread.

pdxal said:

Not sure if this is great advice, but it is 5 1/2 years late for this thread.

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It's good advice. I just joined homebrewtalk and failed to notice the date. I've been brewing for 16 years now (since before I could legally drink) when my sister got me a Mr. Beer kit with cans of hopped LME and the 3 gallon plastic fermenter. It came with 1L plastic bottles that I primed using the prohibition method - adding table sugar to each bottle. Then I made about three kit batches from my local brew shop and bottle conditioned correctly. Then I jumped into the deep end as always and began brewing all grain. Charlie Papazian's "Joy of Homebrewing" was my only brew book, so I made the double bucket, 'Zapap' mash tun and used a two pot system. I've built almost every project in the BYO project mag and built many originals. My Randallizer improvement was published in the July-August issue.

Point is: I know beer! But I've just started making cider and I made my first batch of mead last month. The starter worked like gangbusters! And my Dad bought a crusher and press a few years ago that's been used once to make some apple juice with Fuji and honeycrisp scrim the store. I'm jonesing to make a cider batch from scratch and have just found a great orchard nearby. I have apple trees but no bittersharps or bittersweets. So I'll load up the truck with bushels and the trailer with dwarf cider trees. They won't bear fruit for a few year, but I'll let y'all know how it goes.

I love helping fellow brewing enthusiasts. I'm no snob but I am a total zymurgic geek! So if I cant answer your question, I'll get one for you soon. And I speak a specific manner. No vague B.S. here. Anyway, I've got a WLP 2L starter to make for a 10 gallon batch to brew in 2-3 days.

ChshreCat said:

+1 on what others have said. A starter made from honey will give you a bunch of yeast that are conditioned to ferment simple sugar from honey and they'll likely lag and have trouble fermenting out the maltose in your wort.

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Your right. That why I use a 4:1 beer ratio, a tablespoon of L. DME & a teaspoon of generic yeast energizer!

I just made a 6 gallon batch of sweet sack mead with 20# of wildflower honey. I used a one vial one White Labs Sweet Mead/ Wine yeast and I say activity within 8 hours and the mead was at high Krausen in less than 24! I'm a member of ALEiens online club and YouTube, so check out the photos

Your right. That why I use a 4:1 beer ratio, a tablespoon of L. DME & a teaspoon of generic yeast energizer!
I just made a 6 gallon batch of sweet sack mead with 20# of wildflower honey. I used a one vial one White Labs Sweet Mead/ Wine yeast and I say activity within 8 hours and the mead was at high Krausen in less than 24! I'm a member of ALEiens online club and YouTube, so check out the photos…