Yeah, I know.... Another one... STC 1000 Question

So I just got this in yesterday and starting the project box last night and wiring it up. Being that this is sold as an "aquarium" controller does that mean I can assume the thermocouple is water tight? How does everyone use theirs? Submersed in a vat of water? Taped to the carboy? Use a Dry well into the wort?

I just have mine hanging in the keezer - making sure it doesn't touch anything, just measuring ambient temp.

I'm not sure it makes a difference or not, but I'm using mine in a fermentation chamber. In my keezer, I really don't mind some tempature swing, but the FC, I want that spot on.

People do different things. Some just place the probe in the FC.

Some tape it to the side of the fermenter, with some foam insulation around it.

Some place it in a small container of water.

I, for one, would not trust a probe to be completely waterproof unless the manufacturer specifically states that it is safe to submerge for long periods, and provides a warranty in case of damage caused by doing so.

I haven't finished setting up my fermentation chamber, but I will be taping the probe to the carboy and insulating the outside. The idea is to control the fermentation temperature of the beer, and setting up the probe like this should give a pretty accurate reading of that temperature.

@Homercidal - so just some foam wrap and tape to sides of carboy? I don't really like the idea of placing it in water, my luck its not water proof and fermenting wort puts off heat that won't be picked up in a jar of water.

I just use a bit of bubble wrap and tape to tape mine to the side of my fermenter.

I just make sure to turn the fermenter so that the probe isn't directly between the fermenter and your heating/cooling source. I figure that way, I'm less likely to get inaccurate readings because the fan is blowing cold air or the heater is radiating warmth directly onto the probe.

Homercidal said:

People do different things. Some just place the probe in the FC.

Some tape it to the side of the fermenter, with some foam insulation around it.

Some place it in a small container of water.

I, for one, would not trust a probe to be completely waterproof unless the manufacturer specifically states that it is safe to submerge for long periods, and provides a warranty in case of damage caused by doing so.

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Funny, I was going to PM you today about this very topic.

I tape to the side of the carboy then tape a neoprene beer can koozie over the probe. 2 layers of neoprene is good insulation and they are a good size, and you can get them anywhere for free.

I have to use them for something because I sure as hell ain't drinking straight from the can.

I don't have a chamber for my fermenting bucket, so it is sitting on my counter in the kitchen.

My plan is to wrap the sensor in plastic wrap to keep it water proof, drill a hole in the top of my fermenting bucket, put the sensor in with an airtight grommet (like my airlock has) and putting it directly in the brew.

Is that going to create a problem? I wouldn't think so, but I don't think I see anyone else going the direct route...

thisisjohnbrown said:

Is that going to create a problem? I wouldn't think so, but I don't think I see anyone else going the direct route...

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It wouldn't be my first choice of doing tings... lol Before I built my FC last summer I just used those temp strips that stuck right on the carboy. Anoter option would be to buy a stopper that has 2 holes drilled in it, one for the airlock and the other a thermowell. That way you have NOTHING in contact with the wort. I wouldn't risk it.

With the strips, how would you control the heating or cooling?

Over the years I've done everything from water baths using evaporation to cool, heating belts, etc. Nothing was automatic, I would check it every morning, afternoon, and night. I was able to keep it pretty much 68ish year round except during the hot summer days here in Va. Eventually ended up with multiple carboys going at once so wife said enough is enough, build a shed or something! So I did, but then found out real quick I had no control over the temps out there, so I ended up building the FC. Some days its in the teens in the morning and 50's later that day. Enough to drive a beer guy nutz!

Thing is, you can measure the temp inside the fermenter, but the beer is not going to react quickly to the temperature change in the chamber, therefore you'll get WIDE swings in chamber temp because the probe hasn't felt it yet.

Likewise, hanging the probe out in the air will make the controller turn the heat/cool on all the time since it's going to feel the difference in the temp much sooner than the beer.

I have mine hanging out, but I cycle my small heater much more often than I'd like the fridge compressor to run. If I used a fridge for cooling, then I'd insulate a bit, and make sure to set the offset on the controller for like 5-10 minutes to prevent the compressor from turning on and off.

It's really only important when first getting going, and once the fridge and fermenter are stable, they won't run all that much.

Some folks have monitors to they can see the temp change in the chamber, in the beer, and note when the compressor cycles.

thisisjohnbrown said:

With the strips, how would you control the heating or cooling?

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You can't. You'll have to have a sensor of some sort connected to a controller of some sort.

At least if you want it automatic. Otherwise, check the strip 4 times a day and adjust your heat/cool system manually.

Given the choice, I'd rather do manual than nothing, but automatic has been wonderful for ease of use. I've had batches I've forgotten about due to not having to check it all the time!

(maybe that's just how bad my memory is...)

cool, thats good advice. I think the STC 1000 has a setting for cycle times, up to 10 mins if I recall. Would you only set it this way during the summer when your cooling and shorter cycle times during the winter because its a heater, in my case a ceramic lizard heater (bulb). I could care less how ofter that cycles..... right?

Homercidal said:

Thing is, you can measure the temp inside the fermenter, but the beer is not going to react quickly to the temperature change in the chamber, therefore you'll get WIDE swings in chamber temp because the probe hasn't felt it yet.

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I'm not sure I follow - are you saying this is a bad thing, or just mentioning it for the sake of full disclosure?

What we're concerned about is the temperature of the fermenting beer, not the temperature of the chamber that fermenting beer is sitting in. Wide swings in chamber temp, if they don't include wide swings in fermenter temp, aren't really something to be concerned about...

You can put the probe in a vial of sand. That is what we do in lab for our -20 and -80C freezers, no risk of water getting into the probe.

stratslinger said:

I'm not sure I follow - are you saying this is a bad thing, or just mentioning it for the sake of full disclosure?

What we're concerned about is the temperature of the fermenting beer, not the temperature of the chamber that fermenting beer is sitting in. Wide swings in chamber temp, if they don't include wide swings in fermenter temp, aren't really something to be concerned about...

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Just for general knowledge.

You really want the beer to remain stable, but you have to consider the soak time involved. It takes so long for the probe in the beer to sense the change, that the chamber temp could be MUCH higher or lower than you really want. Then it soaks into the beer over time and you overshoot.

I like to run the temps in a narrow range and cycle more often. Less overshoot and just as stable for the beer since the chamber isn't experiencing wide swings.

This is why a small container of liquid, or s bit of insulation works nicely, because it isn't effected quite as quickly as a bare probe, but still much quicker than a probe suspended in the wort.

I don't see any harm in cycling the heater quickly. However, FYI most heaters have a thermal breaker that requires it to be unplugged and turned off and then on again, so letting the heater run too LONG might cause the temp inside the chamber to trip the breaker.

This is how my last two beers stalled out, because the break tripped and I wasn't out there to reset it for like 2 weeks! I only had to set the differential tighter and up the offset so it wouldn't cycle quite as often.

I finally finished up the wiring on my STC 1000 last night, plugged it in and tested it out. It works like a champ but I was comparing it to a digital kitchen thermometer and although they were both spot on as far as temperature goes, the STC is way more sensitive (.1c). I was watching the STC rise and fall very quickly compared to the standard thermometer. I may try cup of sand trick and see if it helps stabilize it any. I did notice this morning it was much more stable and not rising/falling like it was last night when I first hooked it up. Pretty much just like Homercidal said it would.

I will say I like how fast the bulb on the STC reacts compared to the bulb on my old Honeywell controller was. No overshooting of temps due to slow readings. When I hit my set point last night and the STC cut off the heat, it only rose another .1c. I didn't note the swing on the cooling side. But I'm sure its close. All in all, STC 1000, two thumbs up. I'll let you know how the cup of sand works out.

After thinking about it some more; couple of thoughts. If I use the cup of sand as suggested. That may increase the temp swing as the bulb will react slower to the temperature in the chamber from the insulating factor of the sand. I just may be better off just placing the probe mid height of the chamber and let it do its thang.
Since there is no fan running while the heat is on, unlike while the cooling is on, the mid height placement of the probe would be much more critical as I'm sure its hotter at the top of the chamber. Crap, I see revision 3 already, adding a fan.

sorry for the *N0oB* question... but what are people using for the heat side?
a light bulb? a small space heater?

thanks!

flushdrew42 said:

sorry for the *N0oB* question... but what are people using for the heat side?
a light bulb? a small space heater?

thanks!

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There's lots of options, heating blanket, paint can heater, bulb heater, space heater. Me I'm using a brew belt carboy heater.

If we're talking about using a fridge as a ferm chamber then I definitely prefer to tape my probe to the middle of my ferm bucket with insulation over it. I find this to be the best way to accurately control fermentation and have my fridge run as little as possible. It takes a lot of time and temp change for 5 gallons of beer to change temps. If you measure the ambient temp of the air the compressor will come on way more. Id rather have the compressor come on once and run for a bit longer than keep going on and off and on and off. I've tried putting my probe in a pitcher of water, leaving it hanging in the air and taping it to my fermenter and by far the best option for me was taping it. Just my thoughts for whatever worth that may or may not be .

Oh and I also use a small worklight for a heater...ill soon probably be building a paintbucket heater or possibly getting a heat belt like revvies.

how do you change from heating to cooling on the stc-1000? all the directions say is that it can be done but it doesn't tell you how. i somehow accidently switched it from cool to heat and now its worthless to me. even unplugging it and then plugging it back in doesn't have any effect.

hobbes1188 said:

how do you change from heating to cooling on the stc-1000? all the directions say is that it can be done but it doesn't tell you how. i somehow accidently switched it from cool to heat and now its worthless to me. even unplugging it and then plugging it back in doesn't have any effect.

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I'm kinda confused. You some how toggled over manually so you're only running the heat side?

Did you try warming the temp probe warmer than the temp you're set for? For example if you have it set for 70 degrees, and you hold the probe in your hand it should then click over to cool.

yeah after an hour of being confused I finally figured it out. It will automatically switch from heating to cooling depending on the current temperature as compared to what you are trying to achieve. My confusion came because I was changing settings and I watched the cooling light switch to heating and assumed it must have been something I had done unintentionally. In short disregard my previous post but thankyou for the response.