First PM, question on the batch sparging...

Been trying to read up on it, but seem to get conflicting results... Here is the recipe:

Newcastle Clone
Northern English Brown Ale

Type: Partial Mash
Date: 11/5/2008
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.00 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Equipment: Brew Pot (6+gal) and Igloo/Gott Cooler (5 Gal)
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.00 lb Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 54.35 %
3.00 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 40.76 %
0.12 lb Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 1.63 %
0.12 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 1.63 %
0.12 lb Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 1.63 %
1.00 oz Target [11.00 %] (60 min) Hops 39.3 IBU
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (15 min) Hops 4.4 IBU
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [Starter 125 ml] Yeast-Ale


Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.055
Est Final Gravity: 1.013
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.45 %
Bitterness: 53.6 IBU
Calories: 240 cal/pint
Est Color: 16.2
SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 3.36 lb
Sparge Water: 5.60 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 4.20 qt of water at 169.6 F Mash temp = 154.0 F


From what I am reading on this, I do my mash (4.2qts water @ strike temp = 169.6*F) for 60 minutes, drain to keggle and then I batch sparge with 5.6 gal @ 168*F.

First question = How long for a batch sparge?
Second question = Since I have a 5 gal round cooler, should I split that volume into two batch sparges?

T.I.A.

Well, for a PM, your mash amount seems right. But that's way too much sparge water. You don't want to go over .5 gallons per pound of grain. Too much sparge water will extract tannins.

So, you would sparge with no more than 1.75 gallons of sparge water. If you need more volume to make up your boil amount, you would add water.

Since you'd be using no more than 1.75 gallons of sparge water, you'd add it all at once, after you drained your MLT. Stir well, and you could wait 5-10 minutes and then vorlauf and drain.

Thanks Yoop... I was just fooling around with BeerSmith and that is what it kicked out... Still trying to do all this math with all these formulas...

On that same note - with 3.36lbs of grain and 4.2qts of water the grain is going to soak up about 70% of that water leaving you with about 1/2 gallon of liquid correct?? Not much liquid left!! ?? Is that normal?

The AHS Kits all say use 2 gallons of water in your mash (and add 1 cup of DME) and the books all say use 1.25 to 1.75qts per lb of grain.

On that same note - with 3.36lbs of grain and 4.2qts of water the grain is going to soak up about 70% of that water leaving you with about 1/2 gallon of liquid correct?? Not much liquid left!! ?? Is that normal?

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That sounds absurdly off for grain absorption. .10-.12 gallons/lb is a more reasonable absorption factor.

With 3.36 lbs, you'd be looking at between .336 and .4032 gallons of absorption, bringing your first runnings to between .714 and .6468 gallons. YMMV, however.

Duckfoot, recipe looks good!

I am curious why you are doing a partial mash for this recipe? None of the specialty grains in your recipe require mashing. Why not just replace the base malt (MO) with an appropriate amount of DME and do a steep instead?

Comes from Designing Great Beers.

3 lb of Grain Mash = 0.675 gallons of water lost - he has a table on page 64. HOWEVER - I have read the "words" for figuring this out and can make no sense of them (and I'm a computer programmer so I'm used of story problems) They don't seem to match with the table.

I'm goign to start another thread on this problem so hang on - NOT arguing as I want to get this straight.

Comes from Designing Great Beers.

3 lb of Grain Mash = 0.675 gallons of water lost

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I'm familiar with the chart in Daniels' book; however, I've never experienced that significant of an absorption factor with my system. In fact, glancing at my notes, I tend to lose a gallon on the first runnings with around a 10 lb grain bill, not a 5 lb as indicated in 'Designing Great Beers'.

Of course, all of this is academic. You just need to see what kind of typical absorption you get from your system and your process and adjust accordingly.
I'm always trying to get 7 gallons in the kettle pre-boil, and make adjusts to my sparge volume to hit that number.

Of course, all of this is academic.

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so so true. It's just when I'm at work I play with numbers and make plans. I've never used less the 2 gallons because AHS says "use 2 gallons and add 1 cup of DME).

FlyGuy said:

I am curious why you are doing a partial mash for this recipe? None of the specialty grains in your recipe require mashing. Why not just replace the base malt (MO) with an appropriate amount of DME and do a steep instead?

Click to expand...

Because I already have the ingredients and want to try PM...

Done 6 extracts and want to start working my way up to AG....

I'm with Duckfoot on this one. I like to replace as much extract with 2-row as I can. The less extract the better it has a chance the taste because extract is a combination of 2 or 3 different grains which you have no control of.

Take out as many unknown variables as you can.