My new cheap mash tun idea

Hey all,
Just about to get the bits together for a cheap mash tun to get me into AG fully. I read about the Zapap bucket in a bucket and originally was going to go for this until I read some more and saw a lot of people dislike it.
So I thought I would take one of my 20 litre buckets/fermeters drill a hole in the side at the bottom and use this on the inside screwed into a ball valve on the outside. I will be batch sparging. Does anyone see any glaring holes in my plan? Am I setting myself up for failure or will this work?
Anyone that wants to suggest a PVC/copper manifold or SS braid please do more than a "use a braid/manifold" post
Cheers

I'm going to watch this because I'm about to build one soon and this seems like a decent idea. What is that from/what is it exactly? Haha

The only problems I see would be there would be alot of wort left in the bottom of the bucket (a gallon ish if I had to guess) and heat loss to a bucket as opposed to a cooler(which are used for their insulation)

What is that thing? How big is it? I cannot really tell the scale. How big are the holes?

Seems like it could work and it pretty much looks like a SS braid in terms of functionality, if it is the size I think it is. The only issue I have with your overall plan is that you are going to have a tough time maintaining your mash temperatures, I think.

JollyIsTheRoger said:

I'm going to watch this because I'm about to build one soon and this seems like a decent idea. What is that from/what is it exactly? Haha

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The name I know it by is a check valve screen, basically it looks simular to the screen inside a Y strainer but has a thread on the end. I guess it is used to avoid particles getting into check "foot" valves that could stick them open.

JollyIsTheRoger said:

The only problems I see would be there would be alot of wort left in the bottom of the bucket (a gallon ish if I had to guess) and heat loss to a bucket as opposed to a cooler(which are used for their insulation)

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I would have the bottom of the screen as low as possible, less than 1/2" hopefully, so I would guess I wuld have approx 1/3 of a gallon left but I could tip it to get that out
I see people mash in kegs which would loss more heat as the SS is a better conductor than plastic, I could wrap in a blanket or sleeping bag to reduce this as well.

Thanks for the comments and suggestion, guess I now have to do it with people depending on me

Yeah definitely let me know how it goes, may put one of those in a cooler instead of messing with making a manifold or worrying about a braid getting smashed or destroyed

weirdboy said:

What is that thing? How big is it? I cannot really tell the scale. How big are the holes?

Seems like it could work and it pretty much looks like a SS braid in terms of functionality, if it is the size I think it is. The only issue I have with your overall plan is that you are going to have a tough time maintaining your mash temperatures, I think.

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Yeah sorry, should have had a bit more info on the size. basically you can get it in any normal pipe size and it is roughly the same OD as the same size pipe, I was going to go for either a NB15 or NB20 (1/2" or 3/4"). It is about 1.5" long. The holes a probably (from memory) less than 1mm (0.039").
See above for my comments on temperature, basically I'll blanket it up if it is a problem

JollyIsTheRoger said:

Yeah definitely let me know how it goes, may put one of those in a cooler instead of messing with making a manifold or worrying about a braid getting smashed or destroyed

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Yeah my other original plan was using a Y strainer on the outside but then I would have to deal with disassembling it to clean it out. Was standing in the building supplies shop and looked down and saw that thing and went "pearla".
Now got to wait for payday (tomorrow!) to kick this off! Friday night I hope to build this and drill my support angle for my DIY grain mill!

mattd2 said:

I see people mash in kegs which would loss more heat as the SS is a better conductor than plastic, I could wrap in a blanket or sleeping bag to reduce this as well.

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Most people mashing in kegs are maintaining temps by direct firing or with a RIMS tube or HEX coil. Even then they still often insulate. My guess is that temp loss will be your largest issue, but it's a relatively easy fix. You might want to consider some better/ more permanent insulation instead of or in addition to the sleeping bag. Otherwise it looks good from what I can tell.

JuanMoore said:

Most people mashing in kegs are maintaining temps by direct firing or with a RIMS tube or HEX coil. Even then they still often insulate. My guess is that temp loss will be your largest issue, but it's a relatively easy fix. You might want to consider some better/ more permanent insulation instead of or in addition to the sleeping bag. Otherwise it looks good from what I can tell.

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Fair call, I am interested to see what kind of temp drop I do get with just a plain bucket. My grain won't arrive for at least a few days after the tun is ready so I could give it a go with just water, to make sure it is not to extreme.
Cheers guys

mattd2 said:

Fair call, I am interested to see what kind of temp drop I do get with just a plain bucket. My grain won't arrive for at least a few days after the tun is ready so I could give it a go with just water, to make sure it is not to extreme.
Cheers guys

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Just a heads up. The temp drop w/ just water will be far greater than a mash. They behave very differently. I think the plastic bucket and sleeping bag will work fine. I would mash a little high (say 155)in anticipation of a bit of a loss for the first batch or so.

I use a plastic bucket- in - bucket system. Two 31 litre buckets with a lot! Of holes in the inner buckets bottom. Just some isolation on the outside. Then i use for heater a 30 litre plastic fermentation bucket with two heater elements from waterboilers. I also use that heater as a boiler for the wort. I can put in a pic later if someone is interested

scaryeyes said:

I use a plastic bucket- in - bucket system. Two 31 litre buckets with a lot! Of holes in the inner buckets bottom. Just some isolation on the outside. Then i use for heater a 30 litre plastic fermentation bucket with two heater elements from waterboilers. I also use that heater as a boiler for the wort. I can put in a pic later if someone is interested

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If you could share some pics that would be awesome

If I get this right, you're planning on having just one extraction point in you MLT. I didn't get the length of the mesh, but it looks like it's only an inch or so. If that's the case you'll get a lower efficiency due to the fact that the sweet wort on the opposite side of the tun will have no way to get to the valve. The reason people use manifolds, braids, and false bottoms is because they get a more complete area from which the wort is removed. I'm probably not explaining this well, but just know that if you're using just a side port to gather your wort, you'll get a lower efficiency than if you used a manifold, braid, or false bottom.

barrooze said:

If I get this right, you're planning on having just one extraction point in you MLT. I didn't get the length of the mesh, but it looks like it's only an inch or so. If that's the case you'll get a lower efficiency due to the fact that the sweet wort on the opposite side of the tun will have no way to get to the valve. The reason people use manifolds, braids, and false bottoms is because they get a more complete area from which the wort is removed. I'm probably not explaining this well, but just know that if you're using just a side port to gather your wort, you'll get a lower efficiency than if you used a manifold, braid, or false bottom.

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That is how I was going to set it up. It is about 1 - 1.5" long. I am batch sparging so I will drain all the first runnings wort out of the MLT first then dump my sparge water in and mix it up again then drain fully again.
I agree that this definatly wouldn't work for fly sparging but do you still see an issue with batch? can you explain more if you do?

Cheers

I made false bottom out of a food grade bucket bottom and it works just fine. You may want to try that route instead.

I cut the bottom inch off of a bucket, drew up a template for evenly spaced holes and spent a few hours with a 1/8" drill bit drilling out the top and the sides. I drilled one larger hole in the side of my "manifold" to accommodate some silicone tubing to slide in to get under the "manifold".

This seems similar to what you are doing from what I can tell (i am half asleep so I may be way off). I get around 80% efficiency and have had no problems what so ever out of it. Give it a shot, the worst thing that could happen is that you are out a few bucks and have to re-invent your plan a little.

Good Luck!

Got it all put together tonight. Held water good, went from 111 to 106 degrees F in 30 minutes so might need a blanket to keep it warm

mattd2 said:

Hey all,
Just about to get the bits together for a cheap mash tun to get me into AG fully. I read about the Zapap bucket in a bucket and originally was going to go for this until I read some more and saw a lot of people dislike it.
So I thought I would take one of my 20 litre buckets/fermeters drill a hole in the side at the bottom and use this on the inside

screwed into a ball valve on the outside. I will be batch sparging. Does anyone see any glaring holes in my plan? Am I setting myself up for failure or will this work?
Anyone that wants to suggest a PVC/copper manifold or SS braid please do more than a "use a braid/manifold" post
Cheers

Click to expand...

mattd2 said:

That is how I was going to set it up. It is about 1 - 1.5" long. I am batch sparging so I will drain all the first runnings wort out of the MLT first then dump my sparge water in and mix it up again then drain fully again.
I agree that this definatly wouldn't work for fly sparging but do you still see an issue with batch? can you explain more if you do?

Cheers

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Sorry about the late response. Here's the references I'd read:

How To Brew: Building a Mash/Lauter Tun

How To Brew: Getting the Wort Out (Lautering)

I know at some point on the Brew Strong show they talked about MLTs and I recall hearing that you can still get 60% efficiency with a single port MLT when batch sparging. Give it a try for a couple batches. If you don't get the efficiency you were hoping for (70s is ideal imo), build a manifold/braid/false bottom.

Vance71975 said:

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftY_HZAFJFc"

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mattd2 said:

Anyone that wants to suggest a PVC/copper manifold or SS braid please do more than a "use a braid/manifold" post
Cheers

Click to expand...

Thanks for the video, it is a very good one on how to build a cooler MLT. But, and I mean no offence, I was more meaning if you are trying to convince me to go the traditional braid/manifold way give me the reasoning behind going this way. It is a good video for others though

mattd2 said:

Thanks for the video, it is a very good one on how to build a cooler MLT. But, and I mean no offence, I was more meaning if you are trying to convince me to go the traditional braid/manifold way give me the reasoning behind going this way. It is a good video for others though

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Oh no i meant maybe you could do the video and adapt it to what you want to use with a cooler that has a angled drain groove, no waste in the tun and would work great, the braid is totally up to you, or a T connector on the inside with 2 of what you plan on using maybe!

Batch sparging with a single drainage point will get you a higher efficiency than fly sparging will in the same set-up. It will be less efficient than sparging with a true false bottom, but not so much so that you'll be wasting tons of money on grain. I'd guesstimate that you get about 60% efficiency with this design, which isn't great, but it's certainly enough to make good beer, and it's pretty close to the ideal efficiency range (which I'd say is about 65%-85% efficiency.)

I'd be much more concerned about insulation for this project. You'll need a lot of it to maintain your mash temperature. You'll also want some kind of a skin on the insulation to keep it from getting wet (which would destroy its insulation value.) Taking into account the costs of the parts, it feels like it'd be cheaper and easier to build a cooler MLT with a braid, and you'd probably get better results.

. . . but then again, somebody probably said the same thing about the Zap-Pap to the guy who built the first cooler MLT, so go ahead and try the project, and let us know how it turns out!

I am about to lauter with the cheap mash tun!
Wish me luck!

Hahahahaha... It is working... sort of...
Was just dribling out at first but now I have some tube on the outlet which is giving it a bit more suction with 1-2' of drop extra syphon!
Got the first sparge going now (12.5 litres mash / 10 litres 1st sparge / 7 litres 2nd sparg = 24.6 litres preboil), second will start soon. I'll grab a SG reading before the boil and check against a estimate of 6.5 gallon preboil (no sightglass/calibrated BK ) to estimate my efficiency!

Ok a quick rough estimate of my mash efficiency.
Preboil SG = 1.041
Preboil volume (estimated) = 6.5 gallons
Efficiency = 68%
Estimated OG, based on 5.5 gallons / no loss in BK (yeah right ) = 1.048
Which puts me in range for my style - Irish red ale (1.044-1.060)

mattd2 said:

If you could share some pics that would be awesome

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Heres the pics of my old plastic setup. I have a new setup in stainless. Cheap as well, but needs welding. Pics will come later

On the pics the setup was only assembled for the camera. But worked really fine


CHEERS

Looks good Scaryeyes, like the mash tun idea.
Just calculated my figures
Got 5 gallons of 1049 wort out of 10.625 lbs of grain so I get an eff of 62%, which is pretty good considering the fact that I had issues with my DIY mill so I had about 5 - 7 oz of uncrushed grain and the lauter issues at first.

Not bad Matt. Is this your first full batch doing AG?

barrooze said:

Not bad Matt. Is this your first full batch doing AG?

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First 5 gallon AG batch with a mash tun.
Before this I was doing BIAB with 3 gallon batches.
I'll try get some photos up after work (no where near as nice as scaryeyes ones though!).

OK here are a few photos of the night

Can anyone show me how to make an apple masher so I can make cidet

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How did the mash temp hold up over the duration? Did it fall much? What mash efficiency did you end up getting?

taximan98 said:

Can anyone show me how to make an apple masher so I can make cidet

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Where in the F did that question even come from?

Epic thread hijacking.

Fid said:

Where in the F did that question even come from?

Epic thread hijacking.

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who knows. maybe a cidet has something to do with a mash tun

taximan98 said:

Can anyone show me how to make an apple masher so I can make cidet

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Try Google. First hit: Building an Apple Grinder