Wyeast - 48 hrs till brew day

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eighteez

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I broke the inner packet 48 hrs prior to brew day.

Put it in a 70-75 degree place and went to bed.

The next morning I checked it and its puffed up nicely.

I have 36 hrs to go till brew day. I can just leave it be? Is there any danger in it expanding and breaking?

Thanks for the advice!
 
I would imagine it would be fine.

I smack the inner pack as I start getting my ingredients ready for brewing. By the time I'm ready to pitch (a few hours later maybe) it has expanded and ready to roll.

The back of the package states to smack it a few hours before brewing; or you don't need to smack at all, just pitch.

Let us know what happens and how your ferment goes, this may be a good thing to know in the future, because I know all the instructions I've read on kits say "A few days before brewing" on getting the yeast ready.

:mug:
 
thanks!

Yeah, there are a variety of instructions out there... 3 hrs. 48 hrs.

That's a pretty wide stretch.

I guess the yeast reacts to what oxygen is in the pouch then stops until it gets more. (when pitched) But what the hell do I know. :drunk:

:mug:
 
You have 36 hours, you have plenty of time to make a starter for your beer. It's really a good idea to make starters when using ANY liguid yeast for all beers above 1.020 OG...

The biggest reason I suggest folks make a starter is if you make one you'll have peace of mind.

And you won't be starting an "is my yeast dead" thread in a couple of days. (Which then one of us will answer with...."Had you made a starter..." :D

Making a starter first insures that your yeast is still alive and viable before you dump it in your beer. You will be less likely to start one of those "is my yeast dead?" threads that are on here every day.

You will also ensure that you have enough yeast usually the tubes and smack packs are a lot less yeast that you really should use for healthy fermentation.

Making a starter also usually means your beer will take off sooner, because the first thing that the little buggers do in the presence of wort (whether in a flask or in a fermenter) is have an orgy to reproduce enough cells to do the job...So it won't take such a long time in the fermenter since they started doing it in the flask.

Additionally it is better for the yeast to consume and reproduce incrementally rather than just dumping them into the fermenter...The yeast will be less stressed out than if you just dump them in.

Stressed out yeast can lead to a lot of off flavors...maybe even (though rare) the dreaded autolysis....Or the curse of 1.030....getting a stuck fermentation because the yeast have bit the dust.

So making a starter proves your yeast is still healthy, allows you to grow enough yeast to do the job, cuts down on lag time, and ensures that you will not get off flavors or stuck ferementations from stressed out yeast.

You have plenty of time til brew day, so there is really no reason not to be making one.
 
ok.

I ws going to skip this step due to many opinions of "just pitch it"

I am planning on stopping by the brew store tonight on my way home to buy another package of the yeast I'm using in case I have a problem. I suppose I should get whatever is needed for a yeast starter.

I dont have any of my books with me today, can you tell me what is needed for a starter? I'll grab it on the way home from work tonight. That will leave me with 24 hrs to make the starter. With wyeast that has been broken open (inner packet) and sitting at 70-75 degrees for 24 hrs. I want to be in the best shape I can.
 
has to do with the actual pitch rates of the smack packs and tubes, and has to do with the data that Jamil Z has on his mr malty website.

I'll quote some of it, but really you should look at the stuff there;

http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php

Ales & Lagers

The general consensus on pitching rates is that you want to pitch around 1 million cells of viable yeast, for every milliliter of wort, for every degree plato. A little less for an ale, a little more for a lager. George Fix states about 1.5 million for a lager and 0.75 million for an ale in his book, An Analysis of Brewing Techniques. Other literature cites a slightly higher amount. I'm going with Fix's numbers and that is what the pitching calculator uses.
The Math

If you're curious, here is the simple math to calculate the number of cells needed. For an ale, you want to pitch around 0.75 million cells of viable yeast (0.75 million for an ale, 1.5 million for a lager), for every milliliter of wort, for every degree plato.

(0.75 million) X (milliliters of wort) X (degrees Plato of the wort)

* There is about 3785 milliliters in a gallon. There are about 20,000 milliliters in 5.25 gallons.

* A degree Plato is about 1.004 of original gravity. Just divide the OG by 4 to get Plato (e.g., 1.048 is 12 degrees Plato).

So, for a 1.048 wort pitching into 5.25 gallons you need about 180 billion cells.

(750,000) X (20,000) X (12) = 180,000,000,000

As an easy to remember rough estimate, you need about 15 billion cells for each degree Plato or about 4 billion cells for each point of OG when pitching into a little over 5 gallons of wort. If you want a quick way of doing a back of the envelope estimate, that is really close to 0.75 billion cells for each point of gravity per gallon of wort. Double that to 1.5 billion for a lager.
Pitching From Tubes, Packs, or Dry Yeast

Both White Labs and Wyeast make fantastic products and you can't go wrong with either one. There are differences between their strains and each brand has pluses and minuses yet neither is better than the other across the board. Use the brand your local homebrew shop carries, if you need a way to decide.

A White Labs tube has between 70 and 120 billion cells of 100% viable yeast, depending on the yeast strain. Some cells are much larger than others and there are more or less per ml based on size. (The information on the White Labs web site stating 30 to 50 billion cells is out of date.) We can just assume there are around 100 billion very healthy yeast. You would need 2 tubes if you were pitching directly into 5.5 gallons of 1.048 wort to get the proper cell counts.

A Wyeast Activator pack (the really big ones) and the pitchable tubes have an average of 100 billion cells of 100% viable yeast. The smaller packs are around 15-18 billion cells. You would need 2 of the large packs if you were pitching directly into 5.5 gallons of 1.048 wort to get the proper cell counts. For the small packs, you'd need eleven of them!


But to make it easier he has a great pitch rate calculator http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

And according to his numbers on his calculator, really any beer above 1.020, you should be making a starter for.

Me personally when I use liquid yeast I just make a starter. I may not be as anal as some brewers and makes sure that I have the exact cellcount for whatever gravity beer I am making, but I do make one for the above reasons I mentioned, namely peace of mid, and a reduction in lag time.

Seriously, that's one way to insure you have clean tasting beer, not to stress out or underpitch your yeast. You may find the "bothering" to make a starter will make even the less than best kit beer come out tasting great.

How to make one;

What you need to create a simple starter:

•Extra light DME (3-4oz)

•1 quart water

•4-6 quart sauce pan with lid

•Pyrex flask or masn jar, or any container

•Tin foil

•Room temperature liquid yeast or dry yeast that has been re hydrated in 95F-105F water


The process:

•Bring 1 quart of water to a boil in the sauce pan.

•Measure 3-4 oz of DME and introduce this to the boiling water, stir well, boil 10 minutes.

•Remove from heat, placing lid on the sauce pan.

•Cool the starter wort in a shallow, cold water bath or in the refrigerator until it reaches the target fermentation temperature of the beer you will brew with it.

•Once cool, pour the starter wort into a sanitized flask or carboy.


•Secure a piece of tin foil on the opening of the flask or carboy and shake vigorously to aerate the wort.


•Pitch the yeast (add yeast into the flask / carboy containing the aerated wort).

•Seal container with a clean piece of foil, or a cork fitted with an air lock.
 
gotcha. Thanks!

Looks like I have time to get what I need tonight, make the starter, and get it in the fridge for 24 hrs before starting my boil.
 
gotcha. Thanks!

Looks like I have time to get what I need tonight, make the starter, and get it in the fridge for 24 hrs before starting my boil.

Why are you fridging your starter, just to cold crash it? That's always an optional step. Some folks just swirl and pitch all the liquid. It's really a preference thing more than anything.
 
I thought I had read that you can/should store them in the fridge after making them.

I should just leave it at room temp for 24 hrs?

This is where **** gets confusing. So many opinions. I appreciate all your advice Revvy, I'd like to follow your recommendations.

tonight, boil up the water and create the starter based on the need for 170-ish billion cells. Based on the info at that link a 2 liter starter is 200 billion cells. 1 liter is 150 billion. I'm assuming that more is better.

So I'll look into making a 2 liter starter.

I need 200 grams of DME.

make the starter, let it cool, aerate well, add the yeast, put the airlock on and then store it at 70 degrees or so.

And it sitting for 24 hrs is just fine if I understand this all correctly.
 
almost 80% of brewing "info" out there is based purely on opinions....What works for us. You will find that there are many ways to "skin the brewing cat." In fact there's a saying that if you ask 10 different brewers how to do something you will get 12 different answers and ALL will be the right way to do it. :D

Fact- Making starters is good to do when using liquid yeast.
Opinion- Decanting or not decanting, chilling or not chilling. It won't change the outcome of the beer. The beer will ferment just fine either way, and pretty taste the same either way.

You have the luxury of time, so you can cold crash and decant off the beer on top if you want. Even if you put it in the fridge for a couple hours on brew day. But if you didn't then it would be fine too.
 
sounds good. Thanks again revvy.

I can see how the starter thing is highly recommended now. You've got math telling you that 180 billion cells are needed and as I look at the wyeast slap pack it says 35 billion on it....

I'm assuming that the yeast starter is what bridges the gap and provides the missing 145 billion!
 
sounds good. Thanks again revvy.

I can see how the starter thing is highly recommended now. You've got math telling you that 180 billion cells are needed and as I look at the wyeast slap pack it says 35 billion on it....

I'm assuming that the yeast starter is what bridges the gap and provides the missing 145 billion!

Yeah, it's called sex. :D

Making a starter reproduces the yeast.
 
haha!

Maybe I should play a little Barry White while the starter is doing its thing...
 
So I made my starter.

How long does it take to see any activity in there?

Its a 2 liter mixture...
 
alrighty. this morning there is activity.

Yeast went in at 8:15pm last night. Nothing was happening at 11:15pm.

This morning there is a bubble coming up the airlock about every 2-3 seconds. My plans are to brew tonight with this starter.

Am I on pace? About 12 hrs left til brew time...
 
Just like in the fermenter, starter fermentation isn't always dynamic...It doesn't matter one blip in your fermenter or your starter flask if the airlock bubbles or not (if you are using an airlock and not tinfoil,) or if you see a krauzen. In fact starter fermentation are some of the fastest or slowest but most importantly, the most boring fermentations out there. Usually it's done withing a few hours of yeast pitch...usually overnight when we are sleeping, and the starter looks like nothing ever happened...except for the little band at the bottom. Or it can take awhile...but either way there's often no "activity" whatsoever....

I usually run my stirplate for the first 24 hours, then shut it down, if you are spinning your starter it is really hard to get a krausen to form anyway, since it's all spinning, and there's often a head of foam on it from the movement.


All that really matters is that creamy band o yeast at the bottom.



rsz_yeast_starter_chilled_001.jpg


This is a chilled sample so it's flocculated, but even with an unchilled sample you should see a band of yeast at the bottom. Here's an unchilled version

starter.jpg


Same thing, a band.

As it is I've only ever seen two or three krausens actually on my starter (one blew off a bunch of krausen and knocked the tinfoil off the flask,) and the evidence of one on the flask at the "waterline" once. But I've never not had a starter take off.

Look for the yeast at the bottom, don't worry what it looks like on top. It's only been a day anyway.

You SAID you had yeast on the bottom....that's all you really need.
:mug:
 
You SAID you had yeast on the bottom....that's all you really need.

I don't recall saying that. That's what I'll look for tonight though. The band of yeast at the bottom.

Thanks for the advice. I couldnt find anything in any of my books or shoddy instructions regarding starters saying what you are to see to show that the starter was successful.
 
I don't recall saying that. That's what I'll look for tonight though. The band of yeast at the bottom.

Thanks for the advice. I couldnt find anything in any of my books or shoddy instructions regarding starters saying what you are to see to show that the starter was successful.

Sorry, that was a cut an paste...it's one of those most often asked questions on here. Usually I'll cut out anything from previous times I've answered, anything that may have been specific to a previous poster. But I'm multi-tasking at the moment and didn't get a chance to. But everything ELSE...is pertanant to when a starter is done. :)
 
gotcha.

Look for the band of yeast.

And its not likely that a starter yeast batch isnt going to work correctly.

That is what I learned from this so far. Along with your recommendation to consistently use a yeast starter.

Thanks Revvy!
 
Yeah, it's called sex. :D

Oooh, oooooooh, can I pick this nit?? Can I??? Can I?????

*revvy nods patiently, rolling his eyes at the brew noob scientist*

Ahem! Here we go: Relatively little yeast reproduction is due to "sex".

Technically speaking, "sex" is the merging of parental DNA to create a genetically unique offspring. Most yeast reproduction consists of budding, i.e., a genetic clone just pinches off the "mother" yeast cell and becomes a new yeast.

Despite having a normal gene count of "1n", yeast can, in fact, sometimes become diploid (gene count 2n) temporarily and then kind of have an oogie-boogie kind of monocellular sex situation. It's not hot. It's not sweaty. It's probably sticky, though. ;)

So, that's the ins-and-outs of yeast sex! (Pardon the pun.)
 
Oooh, oooooooh, can I pick this nit?? Can I??? Can I?????

*revvy nods patiently, rolling his eyes at the brew noob scientist*

Ahem! Here we go: Relatively little yeast reproduction is due to "sex".

Technically speaking, "sex" is the merging of parental DNA to create a genetically unique offspring. Most yeast reproduction consists of budding, i.e., a genetic clone just pinches off the "mother" yeast cell and becomes a new yeast.

Despite having a normal gene count of "1n", yeast can, in fact, sometimes become diploid (gene count 2n) temporarily and then kind of have an oogie-boogie kind of monocellular sex situation. It's not hot. It's not sweaty. It's probably sticky, though. ;)

So, that's the ins-and-outs of yeast sex! (Pardon the pun.)

Yeah yeah yeah, I know...But come on, isn't it more fun to think of it as making flippy flop????? :D

Reminds me years ago of a film I made here at the med school with a researcher who was looking into how to end the Zebra Mussel scourge that is in the great lakes. The trick he was trying was to interrupt the breeding cycle. Trying to give the chemicals that would make the pesky little buggers "shoot blanks" if at all. They tried everything, including LSD believe it or not. The funny part about it was how the Zebra Mussels had "sex" basically the "daddy" zebra mussel shot out a cloud of "sperm" and the "Mommy" Zebra mussel shot out a cloud of eggs, and if they were lucky the two clouds passed each other in the water and the fertilized the eggs.

I just couldn't think of a more boring way to have "sex"....

Well, except for the way a certain ex girlfriend of mine did, that is. Hence the "ex" status.;)
 
I wouldnt recommended trying that method. You'd likely be arrested.
 
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