Southern English Brown

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thethirstyweasel

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In the planning stages for a SEB on Thursday this is what I'm thinking:

58% Pale Ale Malt
7% Carastan Malt
7% Medium English Crystal Malt (~68L)
7% Special B Malt
7% Aromatic Malt
7% Brown Malt
7% Flaked Barley

@ 70% efficency I'm looking @ ~1.042 right @ 19 SRM

Probably Hop with East Kent Golding to get around 17 IBUS

Wyeast 1318 London Ale III
 
21% crystal malts seems like too much too me. I would drop that to 10-14%, maybe 6oz. of each type for 5 gal. I would also skip the flaked barley. Add a very small amount (1oz) of black patent to make it a little darker, if you like; it will also help to balance some of the crystal malt, making the finish just a touch drier without noticable roastiness.
 
I agree. That is way way too much specialty malts. I generally advise to stay under 20%, even for stuff like RIS. This will be a cloyingly sweet beer with an FG in the high 1.020s. Try to take some of them out. Special B really doesnt have a place in an English Brown and just pick one or the other for carastan and medium crystal
 
21% crystal malts seems like too much too me. I would drop that to 10-14%, maybe 6oz. of each type for 5 gal. I would also skip the flaked barley. Add a very small amount (1oz) of black patent to make it a little darker, if you like; it will also help to balance some of the crystal malt, making the finish just a touch drier without noticable roastiness.

Flaked Barley:rockin:

you may have a point on the high concentration of crystal, I'm a little worried about this myself. Last year I made JZ's SEB and felt that it was too balanced, not sweet enough for the style, I've never had a commercial example of SEB, are they not suppose to be almost cloyingly sweet?

:mug:
weez
 
Flaked Barley:rockin:

you may have a point on the high concentration of crystal, I'm a little worried about this myself. Last year I made JZ's SEB and felt that it was too balanced, not sweet enough for the style, I've never had a commercial example of SEB, are they not suppose to be almost cloyingly sweet?

:mug:
weez

2015 BJCP says "Gentle to moderate sweetness" and "medium to dry" finish.
 
I agree. That is way way too much specialty malts. I generally advise to stay under 20%, even for stuff like RIS. This will be a cloyingly sweet beer with an FG in the high 1.020s. Try to take some of them out. Special B really doesnt have a place in an English Brown and just pick one or the other for carastan and medium crystal

I know use the specialty malts with a light hand:p, I once made a beer with nothing but specialty malts had to use amylase enzyme. My dad thought it was the best beer he ever had.:ban:

The reason for the special B is the supplier doesn't have any dark British Crystal, SEB is suppose to have some dark fruit character as I understand, so I was thinking SB would get me there. I know that I don't like American crystal malts in British Beer. I might cut the carastan though I was just trying to layer the crystal, and I want to try to get by with out using any dark roasted malts.
:mug:
weez
 
2015 BJCP says "Gentle to moderate sweetness" and "medium to dry" finish.

2015 BJCP doesn't distinguish between Northern and Southern Browns like they used to.

The OP is specifically going for Southern, so here's 2008 BJCP:

Aroma: Malty-sweet, often with a rich, caramel or toffee-like character. Moderately fruity, often with notes of dark fruits such as plums and/or raisins. Very low to no hop aroma. No diacetyl.

Appearance: Light to dark brown, and can be almost black. Nearly opaque, although should be relatively clear if visible. Low to moderate off-white to tan head.

Flavor: Deep, caramel- or toffee-like malty sweetness on the palate and lasting into the finish. Hints of biscuit and coffee are common. May have a moderate dark fruit complexity. Low hop bitterness. Hop flavor is low to non-existent. Little or no perceivable roasty or bitter black malt flavor. Moderately sweet finish with a smooth, malty aftertaste. Low to no diacetyl.

Mouthfeel: Medium body, but the residual sweetness may give a heavier impression. Low to moderately low carbonation. Quite creamy and smooth in texture, particularly for its gravity.

Overall Impression: A luscious, malt-oriented brown ale, with a caramel, dark fruit complexity of malt flavor. May seem somewhat like a smaller version of a sweet stout or a sweet version of a dark mild.

Comments: Increasingly rare; Mann’s has over 90% market share in Britain. Some consider it a bottled version of dark mild, but this style is sweeter than virtually all modern examples of mild.

History: English brown ales are generally split into sub-styles along geographic lines. Southern English (or “London-style”) brown ales are darker, sweeter, and lower gravity than their Northern cousins. Developed as a bottled product in the early 20th century out of a reaction against vinous vatted porter and often unpalatable mild. Well suited to London’s water supply.

Ingredients: English pale ale malt as a base with a healthy proportion of darker caramel malts and often some roasted (black) malt and wheat malt. Moderate to high carbonate water would appropriately balance the dark malt acidity. English hop varieties are most authentic, though with low flavor and bitterness almost any type could be used.
 
Yeah, I found the 2008 a bit baffling when it came to British styles. The 2015 ones are both more accurate and more fluid at the same time.
 
Why not use 90% Pale Ale Malt and 8% Crystal Malt and 2% Chocolate Malt?

I know you can make a great brown ale this way.

I think you can make a great burger with hamburger meat salt & pepper.

I think the great thing about home brewing and home cooking for that matter is you can adjust things and use special ingredients to achieve a desired result.

I think you can go over the top too and I may have with this recipe, nevertheless I ordered the ingredients today and will be brewing, Thursday, Lord willing and everything goes right.

I welcome the discussion in fact I relish it. It just strikes me as funny because many people out there are putting everything from fruit loops to peanut butter in their beer, and I'm not against that but I'm not much into it either. I'm using a lot of specialty grains but other than the flake its still all malted barley. So I don't think I'm way out there.

I'm not a competition brewer, I'm brewing for me, if others like it that's great, if they don't that's okay too. My main concern is that I like it, and granted it may not come out like I wanted but I'm going to learn something in the process and be able to adjust.

:mug:
Weez
 
Cheers to that. Personally I go for simple grain bills as well, but homebrewing is great in that you can personalize everything. Too many people brew just to style.
 
Cheers to that. Personally I go for simple grain bills as well, but homebrewing is great in that you can personalize everything. Too many people brew just to style.

Thanks for that. How did we get all these beer styles anyway? By brewing the same way as everybody else? I don't think so. I love to read other peoples recipes lots and lots of them read style guidelines think about things I've done in the past and then alter them to suit what I think I'm trying to go for.
:mug:
weez
 
None of the grists so far look much like a genuine British Brown Ale recipe. Here's one from the 1950's:

mild malt 5.50 lb 81.06%
crystal malt 0.33 lb 4.86%
flaked maize 0.33 lb 4.86%
roast barley 0.25 lb 3.68%
No. 2 invert 0.25 lb 3.68%
caramel 0.125 lb 1.84%
ginger pinch
Fuggles 45 min 1.00 oz
OG 1031
FG 1007
ABV 3.18
Apparent attenuation 77.42%
IBU 14.5
SRM 30
Mash at 152º F
Sparge at 170º F
Boil time 45 minutes
pitching temp 60º F
 
brewed yesterday according to my original grist. OG 1.042 highly hopped for the style @ ~25 IBUs perking along @ 62F 24hrs later with 1/2" of Krausen
:mug:
weez
 
I see your from the UK. Have you ever had Mann's Brown, what is it like?
:mug:
weez

A bit sweet, more body than what you expect from the abv. It's not bad if you are trying to cut on alcohol or calories. Some toffee flavour.

I've never had an US brown ale. Most I've had are either like darker bitters, Mann's or Newkie.
 
A bit sweet, more body than what you expect from the abv. It's not bad if you are trying to cut on alcohol or calories. Some toffee flavour.

I've never had an US brown ale. Most I've had are either like darker bitters, Mann's or Newkie.

Yea most US brown ales are full, pretty sweet, pretty bitter, pretty hoppy usually with west coast hops that start with a C, and are pretty strong ABV.
We yanks are great at the more is better philosophy.

Thanks for the info I love British Ale Newcastle for example, but its hard sometimes to get good commercial examples here, Manns for example is not available in the US
:mug:
weez
 
Yea most US brown ales are full, pretty sweet, pretty bitter, pretty hoppy usually with west coast hops that start with a C, and are pretty strong ABV.
We yanks are great at the more is better philosophy.

Thanks for the info I love British Ale Newcastle for example, but its hard sometimes to get good commercial examples here, Manns for example is not available in the US
:mug:
weez

OK! Here it varies a lot, but they tend to not be hoppy. Manns and the like (proper old fashioned brown ales) are pretty much bottled dark milds, and have been like that for about sixty-eighty years. What lots of breweries set up since the 1980s would call a brown ale or a 'nut brown ale' is a special bitter at the top end of the spectrum regarding colour and the bottom end of the spectrum regarding bitterness.

Good article on Zythophile:
http://zythophile.co.uk/2011/03/31/why-theres-no-such-beer-as-english-brown-ale/
 
I would class Old Perculier as a Southern Brown even though Theakstons in based in Yorkshire. its a great beer, clones are available on the internet.

Edit: apparently its an old ale, but still worthy of a brew
 
Yeah, old ale. It's quite strong for brown and has a funny flavour. The strength has been coming down, though.
 
I would class Old Perculier as a Southern Brown even though Theakstons in based in Yorkshire. its a great beer, clones are available on the internet.

Edit: apparently its an old ale, but still worthy of a brew
Old Peculier is nothing like a Southern English Brown Ale.
 
Any commercial examples of a southern English brown? Even here in the UK and I live in the south I don't think I have ever seen one.
 
Any commercial examples of a southern English brown? Even here in the UK and I live in the south I don't think I have ever seen one.

Hilden Nut Brown ale? That was a 3.8% brown ale from Northern Ireland I managed to find in Wetherspoons once :D
I think the whole idea of 'Southern English Brown' is based around trying to get a descriptor for Manns. Ron above would know more.
 
How close is the Marston's version to the original Mann's I wonder? I will ask my dad since he worked for watneys, though I doubt he'll remember.

Edit: I have just seen kernel brew a brown, they usually stick to historical recipes for English styles. I will see if I can pick a bottle up during the week and feed back.
 
The Kernel brown is around 6%. I've not had it but might be more like an early double brown? Reviews suggest it has some toast / roast character.
 
OK I drug my feet on this one a little. Thanksgiving, car wreck, and sick kid. Finally bottled yesterday finishing gravity 1.010 very clear didn't fine this one with gelatin its been @ 58F for ~3 weeks.
 
Here it is it was good:

seb.jpg
 
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