Belgian Blonde Recipe Critique

I downloaded a copy of Beersmith today and started working on my first recipe for a Belgian blonde - I'd appreciate any insight or advice.

9.5 lbs Pilsner LME (3.5 SRM)
8.0 oz Munich malt (9.0 SRM)
2.0 lbs Belgian wheat malt (2.0 SRM)

Since I'm using Pilsner extract, I was planning to boil for 90 minutes with the following hop additions:

1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [3.40%] (60 min)
0.60 oz Magnum [15.20%] (60 min)
1.00 oz Saaz [3.60] (15 min)

This is for a 5 gallon batch and I'll be doing a stovetop partial boil with 3.7 gallons of water and topping off afterwards. Pretty cool how Beersmith estimates all this stuff for me.

Estimated OG: 1.071
Estimated FG: 1.016
IBU: 29.7
Color: 6.0 SRM
Estimated ABV: 7.2%

I learned the other day about how hop utilization is different at different gravities and that convinced me that I needed to start using some software that could calculate all this stuff for me.

For the yeast, I'll be using the Wyeast 3787 High Gravity Trappist yeast.

Couple of questions:

1. Is a 90 minute boil necessary since the Pilsner I'm using is actually an extract?

2. The Beersmith AA% for my hops were different than what I got from my LHBS so I changed the AA% in my recipe to match. Is this what I'm supposed to do?

3. In general, does this sound like a good recipe?

4. Should I add my extract all at once at the start of the boil or should I wait and add some later? If so, do I need to tell Beersmith this or does it not matter?

5. According to Wyeast, a starter is inappropriate for their smack packs, which feels weird to me. I've been making yeast starters for all my brews involving liquid yeast, so it feels odd not making a starter. Thoughts?

I'm excited - I've been wanting to brew my own recipe for a while now and I really want this one to turn out well. I appreciate your thoughts guys. Thanks.

In order:

1. No. I don't know of a single extract manufacturer which doesn't boil off DMS precursors (which is the point of a 90-minute boil).

2. Yes.

3. I'd not use Munich; I'd use a dash of Belgian Aromatic to enhance malt flavor/aroma. Consider adding some straight sugar to the grist; I think you're going to end up with too full-bodied a beer as it is. Pils extracts usually have a significant proportion of light Crystal malts (Briess use CaraPils) to enhance what might otherwise be a thin-bodied beer. You don't want too much body; you want "digestibility".

4. If you're not doing a full boil, save half the extract for your late addition. You will need to tell your software about it so it can adjust IBU. (I don't know if Beersmith does that or not; I'm not familiar with the app.)

5. Wyeast is wrong. Both the liquid yeast manufacturers tell you you don't need a starter. If you pay attention to proper pitch rates, they are mistaken. Those of us who have done viability cell-counts can attest to that. Brew a starter. That said, some of us have followed suggestions in materials like Brew Like a Monk and experimented with underpitching. Rather than slavishly following the Mr Malty calculator, you can reduce the pitch by ~25%, pitch on the cold side (~50-55F) and let the temperature rise over the ferment. This will encourage the yeast to produce a lot more esters than they might otherwise. As you're new, however, I strongly encourage you to brew according to accepted practice for the time being, and stick to a proper pitch rate. Besides, if you keep good tasting notes, when it comes time to brew this recipe again you'll have a variable to tweak.

Cheers!

Bob

Bob said:

5. Wyeast is wrong. Both the liquid yeast manufacturers tell you you don't need a starter. If you pay attention to proper pitch rates, they are mistaken. Those of us who have done viability cell-counts can attest to that. Brew a starter. That said, some of us have followed suggestions in materials like Brew Like a Monk and experimented with underpitching. Rather than slavishly following the Mr Malty calculator, you can reduce the pitch by ~25%, pitch on the cold side (~50-55F) and let the temperature rise over the ferment. This will encourage the yeast to produce a lot more esters than they might otherwise. As you're new, however, I strongly encourage you to brew according to accepted practice for the time being, and stick to a proper pitch rate. Besides, if you keep good tasting notes, when it comes time to brew this recipe again you'll have a variable to tweak.

Click to expand...

The first time I used a smack pack was a couple months ago on a dark strong ale I brewed. Fermentation was really sluggish - took a day and a half to get started. I remember reading the instructions and their websites, because it seemed really odd to not be making a starter. I think it was Revvy that first told me about the importance of starters, right before I did a brew with a liquid yeast and I've never not made one. Thanks for the heads up - I'll head downstairs and make a starter for it then, since I'm planning to brew tomorrow evening.

Bob said:

4. If you're not doing a full boil, save half the extract for your late addition. You will need to tell your software about it so it can adjust IBU. (I don't know if Beersmith does that or not; I'm not familiar with the app.)

Click to expand...

Holy crap! I figured out how to get Beersmith to let me do late additions so I split the extract in half and added it ten minutes prior to the end of a 60 minute boil, and my IBUs shot up to 46!

I take it that this is normal and that I need to go and tweak the amount of 60 minute hops I'm adding, right?

I take it that this is normal and that I need to go and tweak the amount of 60 minute hops I'm adding, right?

Click to expand...

I wouldn't...reading your post just now prompted me to mess with Beersmith to figure out what setting you were talking about as I do partial mashes and add all the LME at flameout.

It changed the IBUs on my pale ale from 39 to 58! I just tasted a grav. sample today, no way is it anywhere near 58 IBUs, it doesn't even taste like 39. All of my 7 batches taste like the IBUs Beersmith predicts for them w/o clicking the "add after boil" or adjusting the "late extract boil time."

strambo said:

I wouldn't...reading your post just now prompted me to mess with Beersmith to figure out what setting you were talking about as I do partial mashes and add all the LME at flameout.

It changed the IBUs on my pale ale from 39 to 58! I just tasted a grav. sample today, no way is it anywhere near 58 IBUs, it doesn't even taste like 39. All of my 7 batches taste like the IBUs Beersmith predicts for them w/o clicking the "add after boil" or adjusting the "late extract boil time."

Click to expand...

Based on this thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/confused-late-addition-beersmith-question-186754/

It would appear that you're correct. Check out the third post in that thread. According to that discussion, brewing software is generally wrong on this and, if that thread is accurate, hop utilization not a function of wort gravity.

Try the wyeast 3522 belgian ardennes instead of the high gravity yeast. I've heard mixed to poor results with the high gravity yeast. The belgian ardennes is great!

1Mainebrew said:

Try the wyeast 3522 belgian ardennes instead of the high gravity yeast. I've heard mixed to poor results with the high gravity yeast. The belgian ardennes is great!

Click to expand...

I already smacked the pack and have the starter going, but if this recipe works out, I might try that strain instead. The description from Wyeast says that it is more balanced between the fruits and the spiciness, which is sort of what I'm looking for. Thanks for the advice.

1Mainebrew said:

Try the wyeast 3522 belgian ardennes instead of the high gravity yeast. I've heard mixed to poor results with the high gravity yeast. The belgian ardennes is great!

Click to expand...

I use 3787 a lot and like it so the OP will be fine.

The recipe is fine, but you need to mash the wheat and Munich. If just steeping, it is pointless using it. You would be better off using a few lbs of wheat extract and dropping the Munich. Most Belgians are simple beers getting most of t he character from the yeast.

Add in a couple of lbs of table sugar to the recipe. It will dry it out nicely. I like to add it to the fermenter a few days into fermentation. 1.016 is a high FG for this style, adding the sugar will help lower it. A couple of lbs can drop the FG by about 4 points compared to what it would normally finish at.

I think 55 F is too low for that yeast (as someone advised). Pitch mid 60s and let it go into the 70s.

Add at least half the extract close to the end. I think it affects hop utilization, but it also helps with color.

Calder said:

The recipe is fine, but you need to mash the wheat and Munich. If just steeping, it is pointless using it. You would be better off using a few lbs of wheat extract and dropping the Munich. Most Belgians are simple beers getting most of t he character from the yeast.

Click to expand...

I had read that wheat malt helped a lot by adding head retention. Will it have that effect here?

Add in a couple of lbs of table sugar to the recipe. It will dry it out nicely. I like to add it to the fermenter a few days into fermentation. 1.016 is a high FG for this style, adding the sugar will help lower it. A couple of lbs can drop the FG by about 4 points compared to what it would normally finish at.

Click to expand...

That's what I typically do when brewing high gravity Belgians, but it's not really what I was looking for with this recipe. I'll think about doing it the second time around.

I think 55 F is too low for that yeast (as someone advised). Pitch mid 60s and let it go into the 70s.

Click to expand...

Agreed. I pitch all my Belgian yeasts at around 64 degrees and let it ramp up from there.

Add at least half the extract close to the end. I think it affects hop utilization, but it also helps with color.

Click to expand...

I linked a thread earlier that talked about this. I'm going to add half the extract at the end, but I'm not telling Beersmith.

Thanks.

gmcastil said:

I had read that wheat malt helped a lot by adding head retention. Will it have that effect here?

Click to expand...

The wheat and Munich will not add any fermentables if you don't mash them. Wheat steeped may help with head retention (I don't know), but you probably could get away with half a pound rather than 2 lbs. I would suggest getting some wheat extract instread, that way you get the head retention + fermentable sugars.

Thanks - I altered the grain / extract bill a bit:

9.5 lbs Pilsner LME malt
1 lb wheat DME malt
8.0 oz crystal 10 malt
4.0 oz Belgian aromatic malt

0.65 oz Magnum (60 min)
0.65 oz Styrian Goldings (60 min)
0.75 oz Saaz (15 min)

Works out to an estimated FG of 1.016. I may add some sugar after the first 4-5 days or so, depending upon the attenuation.

What do you think of this?