Schmitt Crock - micro cracks???

Hey -

Just bought a second schmitt crock. First one has worked great. Second one looked fine. However, first use a couple days ago - kosher pickles...... within a day, all of these "powdery" lines appear on the outside. They wipe off, but come right back in 12 hours or so.

Anyone have any ideas?

I am concerned that the crock/glaze has micro cracks that are leaching the salt brine out????

The lines appear to come back in the same place after wiping off. Thoughts?

***EDIT/Update - just want to update initial post for any future readers - The manufacturer quickly replaced this crock as it was defective. They are great crocks overall and I would highly recommend them. Customer service was top notch when I notified with a problem.

Email the company! I would be concerned that you have issues on the inside also. If they don't ease your fears return it!

Already e-mailed..... doubting I will get an answer till monday though. I just wiped it down on the outside again with hot soapy water and rinsed it off. Looks flawless.... and then the lines start showing up within 10 minutes again.

Those have almost got to be fine cracks in the glaze. And it's likely they are inside too. I would not think it safe, but I have no experience with them. I was looking online to get a couple earlier this morning though. I'm interested in seeing how the company responds. The glaze should be food safe, but I'm not sure about the material under the glaze.

Staestc said:

Those have almost got to be fine cracks in the glaze. And it's likely they are inside too. I would not think it safe, but I have no experience with them. I was looking online to get a couple earlier this morning though. I'm interested in seeing how the company responds. The glaze should be food safe, but I'm not sure about the material under the glaze.

Click to expand...

I have another one just like it that I have had zero problems with, many great batches through it.... that is why I got another. I have a couple friends who have them as well with zero problems...... thinking I just got a lemon with this one. I bought it through Harvest Essentials and have bought many things from them - all worked out great. Hoping I don't have any problems getting this exchanged. It is pretty obvious to me it is cracking in the glaze.

This is a new picture.... about 8 hours since I wiped off all the other lines.... They wipe right off. Not wet. More white/powdery.

Bummer. That's just not right. If your other is available I would move this batch to that crock. I'm curious if this crock is doing this on the inside as well. I'm guessing it was all glazed at the same time and there was a problem with the glaze.

Staestc said:

Bummer. That's just not right. If your other is available I would move this batch to that crock. I'm curious if this crock is doing this on the inside as well. I'm guessing it was all glazed at the same time and there was a problem with the glaze.

Click to expand...

Yep - just moved fermented beets out of my good one, and transferred the pickles. Could not really see anything for sure on the inside of the bad one... but when you look at it just right in the light the entire outside and bottom is covered with tiny lines/cracks.

On a bright note - the kosher pickles I moved tasted great and it has only been 2 days.

Yep, no doubt about it. Your beer is ruined!

Any updates from the vendor?

Yes - just got confirmation last night that a new crock is in the mail. I have always had great service and products from http://www.harvestessentials.com .... So, I was glad they followed up quickly and had no problem replacing it.

I did taste the "powder" ..... definitely salt left behind as brine was evaporating through the cracked glaze

Thank you! I wanted to know both who you purchased from and what their reaction to the problem was. Sounds like a good company in my book! Info is much appreciated!

Braufessor said:

Yes - just got confirmation last night that a new crock is in the mail. I have always had great service and products from http://www.harvestessentials.com .... So, I was glad they followed up quickly and had no problem replacing it.

I did taste the "powder" ..... definitely salt left behind as brine was evaporating through the cracked glaze

Click to expand...

Oh, and that means there were cracks in the glaze inside too. Well if you got to keep the faulty one you can always put a plant in it!

sounds like there was cracks all the way through the stoneware.

I may look into throwing some of these, look like they would be fun to make.

I don't understand why the cracks are a problem for fermenting foods...

Homercidal said:

I don't understand why the cracks are a problem for fermenting foods...

Click to expand...

Structural integrity?

GilaMinumBeer said:

Structural integrity?

Click to expand...

Maybe, but it's probably just the glazing that cracked during the firing process.

Homercidal said:

Maybe, but it's probably just the glazing that cracked during the firing process.

Click to expand...

Problem is, you don't really know until the proof is at your feet.

If it is just cracked glaze then there should not be anything seeping from inside out, the fact that there is residue on the outside shows that the integrity of the stoneware, high fired clay, is not 100%.

Homercidal said:

I don't understand why the cracks are a problem for fermenting foods...

Click to expand...

I don't think it was probably a big deal with an initial batch of ferment..... however, over time, it can't be a good thing. Obviously, there has to be a pathway from the inside of the crock to the outside..... which over time, could become problematic.

I don't think it is "structurally" unsound.... i.e..... it does not seem like it is going to break apart or anything.

However, I think of it like brewing..... If you had a fermenter that was full of scratches - it might be fine for a batch or 2 or 10..... but, the cleanliness has got to be a problem sooner or later, and I am not 100% on what is in the stoneware.... but, if something can leach into it, I assume something can leach out of it into the fermenting food.

*** anyone know - what "bad things" are in stoneware (German manufactured - not chinese) that could leach into food??

Plus, I paid $110 for it and will take one that is manufactured well....without defects.

I don't know much about stoneware, but would it be possible for liquids to travel through the stone without there being cracks? Isn't it porous?

I'm not saying you should not be asking for a replacement, I'm just curious as to it's usefulness. Fermented foods are basically bacteriologically infected anyway. Way different from beer where you DON'T want that stuff hanging around. Almost seems like it would be a plus for things like kraut or pickles.

And the price is one reason I don't own a crock myself. Even at yard sales and whatnot they still go for a lot of $$. I bet the large crock we had when I was a kid stayed with the house when mom sold it. I wish I had thought to ask her back then.

Homercidal said:

I don't know much about stoneware, but would it be possible for liquids to travel through the stone without there being cracks? Isn't it porous?

I'm not saying you should not be asking for a replacement, I'm just curious as to it's usefulness. Fermented foods are basically bacteriologically infected anyway. Way different from beer where you DON'T want that stuff hanging around. Almost seems like it would be a plus for things like kraut or pickles.

And the price is one reason I don't own a crock myself. Even at yard sales and whatnot they still go for a lot of $$. I bet the large crock we had when I was a kid stayed with the house when mom sold it. I wish I had thought to ask her back then.

Click to expand...

Yeah - I am going to look into it a bit. If there is nothing "dangerous" as far as leaching out of stoneware.... I will probably keep using it at least up until the point that something goes bad. Losing a batch of 4 cabbages is really not that big of deal compared to losing a fermenting beer that you have more time and money invested in.

I don't think it is porous .... or is not suppose to be... on the inside. It is glazed inside and out.

Homercidal said:

I don't know much about stoneware, but would it be possible for liquids to travel through the stone without there being cracks? Isn't it porous?

Click to expand...

Depends if it is earthenware, which is porous, or stoneware, which is dense

Earthenware would explain the seeping.

If the salts from what is inside is appearing on the outside..... A problem......

pointcity-homebrew said:

Depends if it is earthenware, which is porous, or stoneware, which is dense

Earthenware would explain the seeping.

Click to expand...

From various specs/descriptions it describes it as follows:

"Schmitt crocks are German quality stoneware made using liquid slurry poured clay."

Also says the glaze is "lead and Cadmium Free."

If they are truly stoneware, then I don't think they would seep like that, even with cracked glazing. Maybe micro cracks in the stoneware itself. Probably don't want to heat it up or cool it down quickly.

Yes, fired clay is porous. That is why you fire them a second time with glaze to seal them. And the liquids inside are not flowing just one direction. There is some exchange going on with a small percentage going back into the brine. Probably not an issue, but faulty products must be brought to the attention of the manufacturer so they can adjust their processes or at least their quality control to avoid the issues in the future.

Plus, the obvious that was stated, he paid the price for a good crock and got a factory second. He should get what he paid for it get money back at least!

Staestc said:

Yes, fired clay is porous. That is why you fire them a second time with glaze to seal them. And the liquids inside are not flowing just one direction. There is some exchange going on with a small percentage going back into the brine. Probably not an issue, but faulty products must be brought to the attention of the manufacturer so they can adjust their processes or at least their quality control to avoid the issues in the future.

Plus, the obvious that was stated, he paid the price for a good crock and got a factory second. He should get what he paid for it get money back at least!

Click to expand...

low fired, bisqueware, is porous. Once you high fire, you have stoneware. Stoneware does not have to be glazed, but is most of the time for aesthetics. As a matter of fact you do not glaze the bottoms as they would stick to the shelves and there is no issue with leaking through the unglazed areas.

Again, this is dependent on the type of ware.

pointcity-homebrew said:

low fired, bisqueware, is porous. Once you high fire, you have stoneware. Stoneware does not have to be glazed, but is most of the time for aesthetics. As a matter of fact you do not glaze the bottoms as they would stick to the shelves and there is no issue with leaking through the unglazed areas.

Again, this is dependent on the type of ware.

Click to expand...

I did not know that. So, given the crock that's the subject of this thread, either the interior stoneware is cracked, allowing moisture to get through to the outside, or the interior was not high fired and is still porous?

Staestc said:

I did not know that. So, given the crock that's the subject of this thread, either the interior stoneware is cracked, allowing moisture to get through to the outside, or the interior was not high fired and is still porous?

Click to expand...

They are using a method called slipcasting, where a clay slurry, or slip, is poured into a mold usually made of plaster of paris. The plaster draws the water out of the slurry and creates a wall, once the desired thickness is achieved you pour the remaining slip out and allow the rest to set up. Then you would start the kiln process.

When slipcasting, you have to make sure the slip has the correct density and viscosity, otherwise you will have issues.

I have not done much slipcasting as I prefer to work on the wheel or hand build with slabs.

I just think it's cool that clay gets less porous depending on the temperature you fire it! I did not realize that at all. Now I want to know why! Lol. I'll keep reading. And I learned that porcelain is fired really really hot!! You are using a commercial kiln?

Staestc said:

I just think it's cool that clay gets less porous depending on the temperature you fire it! I did not realize that at all. Now I want to know why! Lol. I'll keep reading. And I learned that porcelain is fired really really hot!! You are using a commercial kiln?

Click to expand...

I work for a University and have been working towards my Master's in Art, so I have access to our studios. We have 3 low fire kilns and 2 high fire.

Different clay bodies with "mature" at different heats.

Porcelain is, for the most part, kaolin and lacks the iron and other impurities that stoneware has.

Stoneware has iron and grog along with other impurities

Earthenware I have never worked with. It has a low maturity temperature and is porous and relatively fragile. Usually it is used fro flower pots and such.

I think it's both fascinating and awesome that we have somebody on the thread that really knows this stuff! So what is your best guess as to what went wrong with the process that produce the OP's problem with this crock?

Staestc said:

I think it's both fascinating and awesome that we have somebody on the thread that really knows this stuff! So what is your best guess as to what went wrong with the process that produce the OP's problem with this crock?

Click to expand...

Agreed.... I was happy to get good customer service and a replacement crock.... But also interesting and informative to actually find out the problem. Beyond cosmetic, and beyond the potential for cracks being hard to clean/risk of a bad batch of ferment..... Do you feel there are risks/problems with things leaching from the clay into the ferment that are dangerous/bad?

Thanks for the insights.

Staestc said:

I think it's both fascinating and awesome that we have somebody on the thread that really knows this stuff! So what is your best guess as to what went wrong with the process that produce the OP's problem with this crock?

Click to expand...

It could be the slip recipe or the firing process. It sounds like thermal shock to me.

We always make jokes when loading the high fire kiln about praying to the kiln gods and goddesses. You never really know what is going to happen.

Braufessor said:

Agreed.... I was happy to get good customer service and a replacement crock.... But also interesting and informative to actually find out the problem. Beyond cosmetic, and beyond the potential for cracks being hard to clean/risk of a bad batch of ferment..... Do you feel there are risks/problems with things leaching from the clay into the ferment that are dangerous/bad?

Thanks for the insights.

Click to expand...

Stoneware is food grade, should not be any issues.

If you have a local ceramics shop they can re-glaze it with a clear and that should seal it.

pointcity-homebrew said:

If you have a local ceramics shop they can re-glaze it with a clear and that should seal it.

Click to expand...

Hmmm.... I will have to look into that. Might be a possibility of something around here.

Thanks for the insights.

I spoke with the ceramics professor and he said you could try using whole milk and letting it sit overnight in the fridge.

pointcity-homebrew said:

I spoke with the ceramics professor and he said you could try using whole milk and letting it sit overnight in the fridge.

Click to expand...

Don't understand what that would do?

Staestc said:

Don't understand what that would do?

Click to expand...

He stated that he had never done it, just one of those "old timer" tricks.

I did a quick google search and apparently you use milk and low heat. The casein that is in the milk forms a "plastic" when heated.

Casein!!! Anybody other than I remember the pizza commercial ragging on there competitors for using cheese that contained casein!!? Lol

Staestc said:

Casein!!! Anybody other than I remember the pizza commercial ragging on there competitors for using cheese that contained casein!!? Lol

Click to expand...

Didn't The Food Babe do a whole article on how bad casein is for you?

Maybe it was something else...