Pale Ale Recipe, I need some feedback on this one!

Hi again! Thanks to all who have helped. I am brewing a Pale Ale, and I have not yet done one. I have used John Palmer's Book, along with an onlne calculator, to arrive at the following recipe. Not quite sure if I have too much specialty malts, or the right ones, ect. Also, trying to get some good hop aroma/flavor (kind of similar to Saranac Pale Ale). Please give your input, suggestions, and assertions (in other words, if this is going to suck, please tell me!)
Thanks!
Partial Mash Recipe:
Mash:
3.0 lbs 2 row Pale
1.0 lb Biscuit Malt (25L)
1.0 lb Wyermann Munich (10L)
0.5 lb Crystal 40 (40L)
expected yield is 60% efficiency, or 1.023 Gravity for 5 gallon complete batch.
3.5 lb DME Briess Pilsen Light
Boil Volume = 3 Gallons.
(Batch will be 5 Gallons)
1.1 oz Kent Goldings Pellets 4.5% 60 min
0.5 Kent Goldings Pellets 4.5% 30 min
0.5 Cascade Leaf Hops 7.5% 10 min
0.5 Cascade Leaf Hops 7.5% (Dry Hopped in Primary)
Yeast WLP007 1 qt starter.
My beer calculator gives (at 75% AA):
OG 1.054
FG 1.014
IBU 35
SRM 9
ABV 5.2 (5.4 after bottle carbed)
OK, so....specialty malts ok for this style? OK together? OK in total Qty?
Hops combination OK? Timing OK? Trying to avoid 'muddy hop flavor'
Thanks!!!!!

Malt bill looks ok, but if you want big hop flavor and aroma like you mentioned, I'd UP the late hop additions. Your 60 and 30 min additions will only really provide bitterness, not much flavor or aroma. Your 10 min and Dry hops will bring the flavor/aroma. I'd up your 10 minute addition to 1oz, add at 2 minute Cascade addition at 1 oz, and leave your dry hop how it is if you want some good aroma!

You could also think about moving your 30 minute addition to a 5 minute or less addition, and just upping your 60 minute addition to make up the IBUs...

I disagree with Strat on the malt bill...drop the biscuit to 1/2 pound. Add that half pound to the 2 row. Then swap the 30 minute goldings with the ten minute cascade. If you have more cascade, dry hop with it at 7 days before bottling. This lends it's idea's to this:

I do support Strat's idea of building up the sixty min addition more. This is where you really get your bitterness. The 30 min addition is kinda iffy...20 mins and under is where you get your flavor.

However, I believe you will learn best by doing what you want and learning from it. In the end we can tell you what we think...Maybe we agree with you maybe we don't. It's all YOUR tastes that matter. You'll decide what you want and be happy with it.

I agree, needs some work. Too much specialty malt, not enough base. Cut the biscuit to 1/2# or even 1/4# and up the base malt to make up the difference.

Hops, make it an ounce Cascade at 10min, and add an ounce at 0min. That's where the great hop aroma and flavor come from, big late additions.

kgg_033 said:

(in other words, if this is going to suck, please tell me!)

Click to expand...

I don't think it will suck, but I think it could be simplified and make a great beer.

If it was me, I would drop the biscuit altogether, and and a half # to both the crystal and munich.

For hopping I would try to get around 15IBU's in the early hopping (60mins), then make the rest up to your 35 in later additions (equal quantities at 20 and 5 minutes). I would keep the flavour / aroma additions to Cascade only, again to keep it simple.

I more prefer english varieties, so you could consider swapping the cascade and EKG around to give an english profile, with cascade for bittering... this would suit your yeast a bit more.

Hope that helps rather than hinders. Either way it will be good beer!

Cheers

I'd say cut the biscuit all together(there has to be a joke there). if you don't want to then reduce it to .5# and add that to you crystal. I would,personally, sub out the goldings for Amarillo or citra. IMHO just a nicer combo with the cascade. Thats not to say that the goldings isn't a good combo with the cacasde. IMHO

Thanks for all of your input! A consideration, before i tweak my recipe based on suggestions, is this:
My LHBS sells crushed grain by 1 lb increments, and hops by 1 oz increments.
How would i store unused grain and unused (but opened) hops for 4 months.
And will doing so have an adverse effect on flavor (both) and Alpha Acids (hops)?
It might change weather i use the remaining Kent Goldings or Add more cascade, or both.

Side Note, because someone will likely ask where the 4 mo came from: The 4 months is not random, i will be without my own kitchen for 4 months so this is my last batch before mid June (when i move into a brand new house!)

I have to agree with the comments on too much specialty grain. For my APA's I use mostly 2row and specialty for color and mouthfeel. Wheat is great for body, crystal 60. Did a batch recently with only 2 row and a little amber malt. Came out great. For my APA.

OG:1.062 @ 75% efficiency 6 gal post boil, 5.5 to ferm, 5 to consumption

12lbs 2 row
1/2 lb crystal 60
1/2lb Crystal 120 (maybe a little less for lighter color and less carmel body)
1/2 lb Cara-Pils Dextrine (I believe this is what gives this recipe the body, thinking of playing with wheat malt as a replacement, similar to what Lagunitas does)

I only use cascade hops on this recipe with a 60, 30 and 1 minute addition. Fermentation temp is what seems to make this a good beer, keep low then ramp up for D rest.

Hope this helps, IMHO AMA recipes should be simple. I assume your KG Hops are being used to bring an English Ale nose to this, but could be wrong.

Good luck.

Store unused, uncrushed grains in controlled atmosphere, both temp and humidity. Top container with CO2 if worried about bugs. I vacuum seal. I also store hops in mason jars that are vacummed sealed in fridge. Sniff hops before use, you can tell when they go.

Forgot, best outcomes have come with a 2l starter using one yeast pack. Mini beer is 1.040, spinning for 18 to 20 hours MAX. Distill, or direct pitch and allow for major blow out, like 1 quart!

OK, so based on all the above advise, here is my new recipe:
I am going cut the biscuit down to 1/2 lb, and add a another pound of 2 row. This will increase my total grain to 6lbs. My only other mash was 5.25 lbs of grain...so this wil be a nice experiment to see how this affects my efficiency. (I have a bucket in bucket sparge system, and only a 5 gallon brewpot, so space is VERY limited for boil size!)
3.0 lbs 2 row Pale
0.5 lb Biscuit Malt (25L)
1.0 lb Wyermann Munich (10L)
0.5 lb Crystal 40 (40L)
60% anticipated yeild, 1.026 for the full 5 gallon batch.
3.25 lb Briess Pilsen Light DME (I will adjust to reach OG 1.054/1.055 as necessary, depending on my partial mash yeild)
Boil Volume = 3 Gallons.
(Batch will be 5 Gallons)
1.2 oz Kent Goldings Pellets 4.5% 60 min
1.0 Cascade Pellets 7.0% 10 min
1.0 Cascade Pellets 7.0% 2 min
1.0 Cascade Leaf Hops 7.5% (Dry Hopped in Primary, 7 days starting after fermentation slows)
Yeast WLP007 1 qt starter.
My beer calculator gives (at 75% AA):
OG 1.055
FG 1.014
IBU 37
SRM 8
ABV 5.3 (5.5 after bottle carbed)
How does this look? Any further suggestions based on this new formulation?
Thanks to all!

Better. 1.2oz Kent Goldings just seems like a pain though. I would use 1.0oz because that's the amounts i can buy hops in. And you're not going to notice the difference between 35 and 37 IBUs.

I'm still not a fan of the buscuit in a pale ale. It's going to give toasty flavors that don't necessarily fit the style, but if you like toasty, giddyup! It definitely looks much more like a pale ale now though.

kgg_033 said:

Any further suggestions based on this new formulation?
Thanks to all!

Click to expand...

Yeah, brew a double batch AT LEAST! 4 months without brewing?!?!

Scottland, Thanks. I may take the biscuit out, and put it (already cracked) into the freezer till my next batch. May just throw it out. May use it in the pale. Not sure yet. I have no experience with biscuit malt, so in a Pale Ale it may stand out enough for me to understand it's flavor component for future use. So i may throw it in just for that reason alone. But it will be one of those game time decisions.
I will cut the bittering hops back to 1.0 oz, and If i feel I need to, i could make that 10 min addition at 15 min instead.
What I want to have is close to, or slightly more hop aroma/flavor as a Saranac pale Ale, but what I DON'T want is the Hop aroma/flavor of a Dogfish 60 min IPA (which to me, tastes like i am drinking sweet Hop oil). I hope my current hop profile is on target to what i want?
Also, thoughts on shifting my hops additions to this?
1.0 oz Kent Goldings Pellets 4.5% 60 min
1.0 Kent Goldings 4.5% 15 min
1.0 Cascade Pellets 7.0% 2 min
1.0 Cascade Leaf Hops 7.5% (Dry Hopped in Primary, 7 days starting after fermentation slows)
I only ask because i now will have an extra packet of KG unused. Either way, i need some more Cascade, so it isn't like it will save me a trip to my LHBS. But i don't know how I will be affecting my flavor by ahving 2 aroma/flavoring hops in this manner.
*And MaltShovel, I already have an Imperial IPA on it's 2nd week in the primary! We are on the same page!
Thanks everyone!

Ya, your hopping schedule looks spot on for a pale ale. Taste the wort before you dry hop it, and decide from there if you want to dry hop.

Biscuit is really nice in small amounts in some beers. It gives a toasted bread kind of flavor that is really unique. I'm just not sure how well it will play with hops. I would say use like 1/4#, even if you're not wild about the way it tastes, 4oz won't be enough to overpower the brew.

Thanks! I will follow up after Brew Day!